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Shadow Link (Master)
76561198023067759
COHm4st3r (Apprentice)
76561198310575424 |
Add penal nerfs, and Mother russia nerfs, and see if anybody ever picks that commander again.
If for mother russia is nerfed it's not in the notes. Unless you plan to nerf if that commander is selected? |
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How is Soviet counterattack a "least played"? Arugeably the 2nd strongest doctrine for soviets. |
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@Mr. Smith & Miragefla. Tested double tap abilities that I know of. You got the ones that were more publically known, but missed some that are not.
Cromwell and comet can both shoot a standard round and then fire off a smoke in quick succession. The 2nd round is not lethal because it's smoke but I think this works well this way; good for hit and run.
M26 Pershing has had its burst reduced but it definatly has a faster reload for the HVAP. It's pretty alright though, 5 second reload or soemthing.
Got the M10 and Jackson double taps. Issue with jackson is that because of the reload speed of the unit and the ability time it's pretty difficult to get off any more than 2 HVAP. Used to get off 3 but stopping the aim time after an ability is used (which is a rough guess to how you nerfed certain units that have these abilities) makes it take a bit more time.
KT good now. JT is in the same spot as pershing, can still get a APCBC shot off a bit faster but it's nothing major.
Elephant has a major bug out issue. If you pop TWP directly after a standard goes out, the result effect will not not allow the elephant to shoot for ~18 SECONDS! think it has something to do with the 10 second duration of TWP and the ~9 second reload of the elephant. So once the ability ends it wants to reload a standard round or something. It's weird. Could extend TWP ability by like 1-2 seconds to avoid that.
A unit that isn't know to "double tap" well is the scott. but it can use it's barrage and auto attack a lot similar to the way the ISG used to put out 2 rounds in quick succession but now is nerfed. Standard shot then barrage.
That's all I found. Good work! |
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I must be missing something about ostheer tech costs? Basically just redistributed the tech costs so that you need to invest more early so your fuel is locked into the upgrade instead of into a piece of armor |
Then don't use those commanders. It's not like you are forced to use them 24/7.
I forgot I need to spam panthers to deal with the hordes of allied tanks  |
I talk about com panther aura range buff.
Its combiantion with units, tank + AT or shrek or p4 with stug, somthing like this, few times it was p4 spam with shrek + doc ability. Its depends from waht units build opponents and map, if axis have ele or JT why thay need flank ? Just wait allies push and counter play.
What if you get a map where the Elephant and JT are not good? |
In september adn october i have 2 games where com panther was vet 4 and with JP just outrange all another TD, i dont think that its are fine, coz JP have camo, + camo shoot buff.
We both know, that heavy TD cannot be alone, you can kill JT, but lost 4 t34, that means soviet lose more MP and fuel, that will be mean slowly lose economic war, coz MP in late game are more important.
I think p4 and panther are not good choise to flank, its not t-34-76 adn not old cromwel with his price and speed.
I agree with this (a unit dominated for years doesn't mean you should buff the victim to abuse the former bully), but you agree that now stug vs jackson is better ? I think some part of community are interested to make balance, not revenge.
JP4 has same range as all allied TDs. Don't know where the extra range was coming from.
Yup always support heavies. And i agree, but just 1 T34 saved means that it's worth the economic investment, fuel wise at least. But in the next patch the JT will probably be able to kill 1 T34, maybe. most definatly not 2+. So you're relying on paks and raks mainly for their defence. For now though I'm gonna just concede this argument. Yes 2 shots it highly lethal as they are now, but 3 shots is going to put them where they'll be rarely used except in certain situations.
So what do you flank with?
Currently for cost/output ratio the StuG. but the StuG is overperforming in its own right, doesn't mean we should buff everything to OP levels. |
When allies get 1 TD you can get 2 stugs, 2 stugs trade every allies TD, coz thay cannot get 2 of them early then you get 2 stugs, also stug popcap, 4 sec reload, that will be like 3 in vet 3.
STug have 560 hp. Also vs slow unit, with slow turret, need somthing more then front attack like husars.I can say same vanilla story, vet 5 JP will be beat FF/su-85/jackson, with com panther buff and docs ability she will be outrange them and kill with 2 shoots. I think FF need a little fix, 260 damage in vet 3 looks not good now.
Leave HEAT and command panther out of this. Mark target is equally bad.
Sweeper argument, was about you double standarts, in one example you heavy TD that covered by mines was outplayed with sweeeper and tanks, in another, you panther spam lose vs mines.
That was my point. Why are are heavy tds and flanks and micro being dumbed down just so allied tanks can just blindly rush from the front and get around and kill. Use smoke, sweepers, flanks to actually out play your opponet. Not just charge in and ram for engine damage. Map issues are map issues.
I can agree and not, i dont play with ele adn only problem as 2 ostheer we have vs crocodile combo with FF. Dont forget about skill planes. Ele is not so broken like JT, but ele doc with dive bomb make its terrible, coz dive bomb AOE is terrible wihtout flayers. Pathing kills more tanks in this game then AT guns nd TD. Problem with TD wars can be in vision, who get 1 shoot, make last. So allies with t-70 recon mode looks better with it.
Wait, ostheer have stugs taht are good for trades, pacs, shreks, docs ability, to counter all this stuff need a lot pop cap and recourses. Big problem imo are play with ostheer vs sniper/ penals combo coz now you cannot trade 222 into sniper, but must play like goplits, pushing its with 222/flame HT slowly, step byt step.
and soviets have Su76s which are even better than stugs due to lower tech tier and have higher pen, zis guns mark target etc. No one said Stuka CAS was balanced
If TD get flanked imo its not problem of units, its or snowball or hero/stupid rush that mean same sometimes. Penetretion is argument, but vet buffs, armor, target size, reload mean too somthing. I agree about crew andrepeir, but not for all, OKW mehanized. All TD can be flanked, FF reload, slow speed and slow turret make him good target for flank, he have more chance to survive, but i think its must be a different playstyle with TD with turret adn wihtout. Its like play with cons and penals. From my experience, all that can save jackson when he flanked, its ground shoots and zooks, if its dont help he will be dead, like JP, su85 or FF.......
Thing with FFs is if they get flanked it's by a panther or panzer 4. Panzer 4 loses unless it gets 1st shot off and can get up close. Panthers RoF is just as bad as the FFs.
Rifles can also save jacksons with snares. And more importantly now is they'll have mines. but given your opponet has sweepers that shouldn't mean much.
But now, in live version for years stug > jackson.
Not just because of raw stats. The StuG also had target weakpoint for a stun. And just because a unit dominated for years doesn't mean you should buff the victim to abuse the former bully. That's like saying we should buff panthers to pre nerf comet levels so they can have their reign of terror. |
Why you think panther are good choise vs TD ? Isnt panther are vs medium spam somthing like shield and vs heavy tanks ? OStheer have stugs, that are revialble TD, coz his stats and his price make him good. Imo you canot use arguments like this (I understand the idea behind trying to quell panther spam, but dives from panther spam can be halted with mines and they become easy kills for 60 range TDs. ) for reason that this game has sweepers.
T-34 price and pop cap its another problem, you cannot use its like argument do show how heavy TD are weak, coz if heavy units dont have support its will be dead unit soon. Its rule by game. How many flanks you can do in minsk, kharkov, reils and metal and another maps ?
I see problem with heavy TD, you put JT and he win the game, coz he 2 shoots tanks and TD from 85 range, also with ability he counter AT guns adn GL to penetrate his armor.
Jackson adn JP are same category TD, but one of them can be counter, coz low HP adn bad armor. It will be glass canon if its have like 70 range, but no, 60.
StuGs cannot trade vs good allied TD users. Similar problem with the KT vs Su85. Yes the Kt will ruin an SU85 if it gets in range, but you can kite all day with the 85 and the KT will eventually lose. But you expect a 480 HP StuG to trade against firefly which can burst down a StuG immediatly with shot/tulips combo? Also god forbid a firefly gets vet 3 and begins to 2 shot stugs without rockets. Jackson Hvap potentially can do the same.
On the sweeper comment. According to smith just use MGs to stop sweepers. flanks denied.
I never said Heavy TDs are weak, but at the very least the elephant is the only thing keeping ostheer even remotely in teamgames atm along with stuka dive bomb. As said above, ostheer will have zero armor counters to allied TDs.
I want stuka dive bombed nerfed as much as everyone else (or at least add flares for christ sake). but ostheer will be extinct in teamgames if not many of these changes are altered.
As far as the T34s go, that sounds like a map issue, not a heavy TD issue. If a unit is broken on 1 map and trash on another that doesn't really sound like the units fault.
And for the JP4, one has a turret and better mobility and better penetration. Not that the penetration really matters against the jackson, but is sure as hell annoying against the IS2. Also vehicle crews, Hvap etc. I understand what you're getting at that the JP4 is a good TD, and it is but the JP4 can be countered by both allied TDs and flanks from mediums. Where as the jackson is more difficult to be countered by flanks due to the soon panther nerfs and its high mobility. So just overall, the JP4 can be countered in multiple ways, where the future jackson won't be.
The Stug is supposed to fill that role. It's cheap, has reliable DPS and generally trades very well. For OKW you have JP4, 'nuff said.
JP4 sure. StuG most definatly not against FFs, and soon jacksons.
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United States
Shadow Link
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
