Profile of Maret

Avatar Area

Offline Unknown SteamID unknown
Posts: 711

General Information


Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 12:07 PM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 11:56 AMgbem The stug/su76 comparison is really apples to oranges... they arent directly comparable as they both have different roles... the stug is meant to be dedicated AT while the su76 is supposed to be stopgap AT to transition to firesupport AI... The su76 does the former well enough imo... what it lacks is the latter For LV counter SU always have much more cheaper variants (ptrs penals, or at-nades with zis). For medium counter - i already told it's not role of su-76. I don't even could imagine situation when in normal game SU player will be build first unit in T3 SU-76 not T-70. Sitting in T3 also meant that game for SU player will be almost ended. You can't counter P4 with SU-76, while any delay of T4 also delay your heavies and normal armor units. If you will lose your SU-76 you will be without ANY AT (if you have zis, you don't need su-76 at all) and need to build new one or make backteching to zis. That why i want change role of SU-76. If it will be AI support unit - player will have 2 potent variants: 1. Aggressive, risky T-70. 2. More defense-style Su-76. While now - no one in entire univierse don't say that you must build SU-76, if you have zis. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 11:53 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 11:45 AMgbem The fact that we rarely see the su76 in tourneys and regular gameplay sorta indicates that this unit may not be in the best spot... the real question here isnt "should the su76 recieve some changes" but rather "what kind of changes does the su76 need"... this is in contrast to the puma or the stug which are a bit more common than the SU76 Outright AT buffs will mark the return of su76 spam... prolly a bad idea Id go with a cheaper barrage or rework barrage to an AI mode akin to sherman HE My suggestions^ I tottaly against any sort of HEshells "like sherman have", it will too potent on so early timeframe. Su-76 must become LV hardcounter - have enough pen (like 140-110-100) and accuracy to deal with light vehicles while be very weak against mediums. Main role - AI support unit with some AT. Not subpar AT with some AI like now. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 11:13 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 11:02 AMVipper Ratio is still better. Su-76 in numbers can counter Ostheer t3. It just plant mines sit back and out-range all t3 vehicles with he new accuracy while barraging any ATG. If you look in my table - SU-76 still misses to axis mediums and don't ahve 100% chance to pen, while Stug always hit and always pen. And if you told about such "unusual strat", you can do the same witk OKW or even with OST (spam of mg-42 with pgresn with shrecks). Or 222 spam. 2 222 can kill 1 t-70 if you have enough micro to block his back. I repeat again, if you trying compare stug and su-76 - result ALWAYS will be on stug side. SU-76 NEED changing of it role, NOT to be "soviet stug". SU have it's own hardcounter TD in T4. No need make 2 when 1 is enough. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 11:08 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 11:00 AMVipper Then it will have to be more cost efficient than T-70 and that would make it broken. My suggestions were: 1. "Fire mode" like KV-2, where barrage becomes free and have fasten speed of recharge, but SU-76 becomes stationary with reduced rotation speed and got the same movemenet penalty like su-85 when mode is off. 2. "Regular HE barrage" for muni cost. 3. "Smoke barrage" 4. "AP shells" - timed ability that light up hitted enemy armor, like soviet baby-at gun ability. In regular mode, have poor AT, closer to puma. As hardcounter for LV it will be enough. Want decent AT - build zis-3. Abilities - becomes main roles of this unit. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 10:56 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 10:51 AMVipper And you should remember the cost of the vehicles involved: If you do the PzIV/Su-76 cost and T-34/76/Stug cost you will see that it is completely different. Cost of stug against sherman and cromwell? And don't forget that OST could sit in T3 and play while with current patch you can't sit in SU T3 and wait until your IS-2 arrived. SU T3 don't counter OST T3 you need T4 for that to get T-34/76 and SU-85. WHile i agree that Su-76 shouldn't be hardcounter for axis mediums, but i also won't buy it as softcounter, i will prefer zis-3 in every possible situation. It scales so much better and with vet could give you power even against heavies, while SU-76 even in vet3 just babysitting glass unit. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 10:52 AM I told it earlier and repeat again: SU-76 must become AI support unit with some AT. Now it's just hardcounter for LV and softcounter for mediums for 75 fuel price. It will save initial dewsign SU faction when units have 2 roles and give SU-76 ability to be playable unit, not just icon in T3 production. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments18 Sep 2019, 10:17 AM Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 09:56 AMVipper Fun facts: Panzer IV Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1 SU-76 6.3 Accel: 2.3 Su-76 has the same speed and better acceleration than PzIV. Stug T-34/76 Speed: 6.5 Accel: 2.3 STug-G Speed: 6 Accel: 2.1 A T-34/76 has better speed and acceleration than Stug So it actually easier to charge a Stug than a SU-76. In addition: Stug rotation 22 Su-76 rotation 32!!! So ti actually allot easier to flank a Stug than to flank a SU-76 If we starting talking about stats, the good time to remember also next values: 1. Chance for TD deflect shot from enemy medium 2. Chance to hit on enemy medium while stay unmoved 3. Chance to pen 4. Amount of HP Do you want some digits? I have them: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JAzh23Ps-mAyb9Z8xqmSI8sPWs5ZMd1YVIrqHIkoii4 Look into table "DPS 2" DPS of stug against allies mediums without moving. Veterancy of TD and medium equal - vet0 TD vs vet0 medium, vet3 TD vs vet3 medium. vet0 vet3 C-Mid Far-Mid C-Mid Far-Mid Sherman 35,56 35,56 56,34 56,34 T-3476/Cromwell 35,56 35,56 56,34 56,34 DPS of Su-76 against allies mediums without moving. Veterancy of TD and medium equal - vet0 TD vs vet0 medium, vet3 TD vs vet3 (vet 3 OKW not vet 5 OKW) medium. vet0 vet3 C-Mid Far-Mid C-Mid Far-Mid OST P4 29,06 25,57 34,71 30,55 OKW P4 22,35 19,67 34,71 30,55 In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments17 Sep 2019, 15:25 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 14:28 PMVipper This is becoming rather specialized and I will give a general answer: Imo there two types of TDs should be created. The heavy TD meant to deal with Super heavy tanks like KT/IS-2 and the the medium TDs meant to deal with medium tanks. Su-85/FF/Panther/M36 should be in that category while Su-76/Stug/JP in the medium TD. One could increase the target size of super heavier and reduce the accuracy of heavy TDs so that they can hit the Super heavies but perform worse against mediums. On the subject Su-76 there many changes that need to take place to create room for it. An an example one could: 1) Delay Ostheer T4/OKW Panther and Super heavies so that there more reason for player to invest in meduims 2) replace zis's vet 1 tracking ability with the barrage. This change would make both SU-76 barrage more attractive and mortar more attractive. 3) Replace Su-85's vet 1 tracking ability with the focus sight. There combination of focus sight and tracking is simply broken and now Su-76 bring something unique to the table. 4) Reduce the accuracy and ROF of the SU-85 and change it's vet bonuses to provide penetration bonus so that it perform better vs KT type of units With these changes people would have more reason to invest in medium tanks and more reason to built medium Tds. Very interesting point of view. If we try to go this way, we also have some troubles: 1. USF and UKF don't have any other stock TD desides their top tier TD. 2. If you want remove tracking and decrease ROF of su-85, german heavy tanks (P5, tigers) should lost their blietzkrieg. 3. I don't know how removed barrage from zis make mortar more popular. It's different units. And again we return to part - what role should SU-76 have TD? IF you still barrage to SU-76, it means it still the same "good-for-nothing" unit, like today. If SU-76 TD, it need strong AT ability like stun or turret lock. TO be in part with stug and JP4. 4. If we delay heavies, when you will see them in 1vs1? 5. In which tier will be SU-76? In T3? It ruined all OST and OKW game (if SU-76 will be in category with stug and jp4). In T4? Hello all stats rework due top-tier unit. 6. We should up su-76 to stug and jp level or down stug and jp4 to su-76 level? Much simple way - just change role of su-76 to AI support unit and don't make "big all-nations rebalance" of TD and heavies. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments17 Sep 2019, 12:49 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 12:30 PMVipper You opening debates that are off topic. Maybe don't use such arguments and just suggest your ways how bring unit in-game? You want make from SU-76 sniper-hardcounter against mediums? While Su-85 will be potent only against big targets like P5 and tigers? While it possible way i also see some troubles with it - "hardcounter" su-76 against mediums in T3 will ruin OST gameplay and maybe OKW too (spam of T-70 and su-76 without T4). "Hardcounter"Su-76 in T4? If it will be cheap (like now) it will be spam, if we will increase price than we must changed all stats too (like armor, health). Armored su-76 with open top? Very funny... Also before your answer - what means "hardcounter" for you? For me - unit that designed to fight against some kind of target with excel effectivness. Like sniper against teamweapons, ATG against armor, stug against mediums, puma against LV, rocket arty against blobs. Also don't forget about timeframe. Each unit good in right time. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: su76 need adjustments17 Sep 2019, 12:15 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 11:58 AMVipper The unit is balanced and does not need buffs the problem lays elsewhere. When was discussion about ostwind and it place in game, why were buffed AI stats with AA, not only AA? WE could just increase it AA to current level and leave AI in old-level and say "The unit is balanced and does not need buffs the problem lays elsewhere". And i will bet, you will see it only in teamgames as counter to skillplanes. Why Pgrens were moved to T0? We just can't leave them in old place and "The unit is balanced and does not need buffs the problem lays elsewhere". Instead we got playable unit in ost roster. In: COH2 Balance