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Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 14:14 PM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 09:29 AMSeductiveCardbordBox Snipers are literally it. The one hardcounter. Hardcounters Ullu believes exist: 2 BS. I didnt say that...if you would think about it 2sec...you would get some other example where the cheaper unit will win everytime vs a expansiver unit. every mainline infntery will win vs a normal AT Gun crew (expect if the ZIS has a lucky barrage shell).....or normal mortar crews will die anyway in 1 v1 fight...until they setup..they was killed/ mainline unit will come to near to fight back.... or thing about a prist vs a puma or other fast verhicles... or think about a howitzer vs most squads/ verhicles.... in a 1v1 they will die with no chance....so many units in coh witch have exact this paper - stone - scissor prinzip. In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 09:25 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 09:02 AMKatitof Ost sniper can kill lights with its vet1, given enough time or vet1 snipers, they'll kill lights, therefore contradicting your very own definition and example. ok...than take sov sniper In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 08:55 AM Tigers counters good (non-AT) infantry. You could say they hardcounter them...but it isnt a efficient because of high cost. effective..yes...efficient no. A hardcounter example in the coh2 world could be: a ost sniper vs any verhicle with less cost than the sniper. In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 08:08 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 08:03 AMKatitof You're again wrong. That's a description of massively overpowered unit, not a hardcounter. The only units in existence that matches your description are flying units vs melee units. so the paper is overpowerd, because it countert the stone and will be beaten by the scissor..which is beaten by the stone......right?? In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 08:00 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 07:46 AMHannibal That definition is way too easy. According to that, thr Brummbär would not hard counter infantry, since every infantry unit in the game is cheaper that it. What you need to do is scale the units stats to the same cost. And even then you need to subjectively judge by the roles. An Elefant hard counters basically all vehicles. Yet I'm 100% sure that I can kill an Elefant with a Pershing or even with a T34 in a sole 1v1 situation due to the casemate nature of the Elefant. In a real scenario, you need to find the Elefant in a weak spot where you can flank it and then kill it with vehicles which it actually is supposed to hard counter. Cost correction only works if you assume similar or realistic battlefield conditions (e.g. front to front shoot out etc) thats why this TDs are only good counters/ or softcounter.../ counters. Not HARDCOUNTERS. (once more: hardcounters means it will beat the unit in every situation and no lose possible: like a stone will ALWAYS lose to a paper.EVERYTIME. no lose possbile to the paper.) In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 07:43 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 07:23 AMSeductiveCardbordBox Are you kidding. From your own source "...We prefer not to use these terms on this wiki. They are ambiguous and there are many edge cases..." We're also not playing Starcraft, thank god. CoH2 has never really reached an agreeable consensus on what defines a hard counter, but the common parlance use has never been based around cost. The Jagd and Ele are prime examples of tank hardcounters, and they have long been considered exactly that, which are literally the most expensive units in game. once more: yes elefant and jagdtiger counter other tanks with very hard and glorius hits. But...this isnt the definition of a HARDCOUNTER. A hardcounter is where a unit ...even when unequiped or with less costs counter a other unit. Back in my days there was a rogue build which could kill any warrior...even naked with a lvl 1 dagger. this is a hardcounter. This is the definiton IN EVERY GAME. Not only in starcraft. You have only missunderstood Hardcounter...yes a jagdtiger/ ele can hit hard. but the MUST...cause of price. EDIT: A hardcounter means: there is NO WAY that the counterd unit could kill the hardcounter. But...any medium can easy flank a elefant/ jagdtiger and kill it in a 1v1. So the elfeant/ jagdtiger CANT be a hardcounter to armored unit. only when we think about a mass of support units. but hardcounter means it will have easy live in 1v1 . Rocker-paper-scissor. In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 07:10 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 07:05 AMSeductiveCardbordBox That definition exists in your head and literally nowhere else. well...: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Hard_Counters_and_Soft_Counters I mean..u could simple google this to not be so naive as you stand now --- In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 07:03 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2019, 06:58 AMKatitof Jagdtiger and Elephant confirmed to not be hardcounters to anything. No. A hardcounter is a unit(or combination of units in certain cases), which leaves opposing unit with no place to do much and doesn't allow them to efficiently fight back. Cost is only correlation, unless you believe Puma isn't hardcounter to lights or panther isn't a hardcounter to meds too. You missunderstood a HARDcounter. Defintion of a hardcounter: "A hard counter is something that beats its counterpart even with inferior investment." In: Lobby
Thread: So are they really nerfing the Churchill Tank?22 Jul 2019, 06:35 AM In my understand a Hardcounter is mostly cheaper or maximal at the same price like the unit it should counter. A hardcounter CANT be expansiver.. it is like you say 180mp pio is Hardcounterd by 600mp unit. maybe it will kill it fast...but the it MUST KILL It because of tripple the price..if not...the 600mp unit is to weak/ pio too strong In: Lobby
Thread: How come Axis infantry get all the snares?22 Jul 2019, 06:26 AM replace satchels with normal fausts. noone has problems with fausts. but a satchels has MUCH more impact for only some more muni. satchels even can not only do 400 dmg on one verhicle...in some situation it even make seroius dmg to other verhicles(even engine dmg) and sqauds. its in many fights pretty easy to give the enemy 2 satchels which means in most sitauations a dead medium/ heavy tank. to easy. and even when u think(hello katiodoof): "but you must come in rang 10 to set them up. so you must really bad at this game when you let penals comes in this range" True. But it means: the following: their very presence means you can not push into the enemys line, without getting a 400dmg satchel. this is a huge advantage. Oh...and there are MANY maps where you can easily use the view blocker to abuse satchels. Or get a commander with "FOR MOTHER RUSSAI" and easily overrun the enemy line, SMOKE and attack, let sit penals in M3 and drive into enemy lines. so many easy options ... but.... In: COH2 Balance