Need to put the date that this data was captured, at the very top, and what patch.
Added.
Just gonna post what i said in staff for relevance.
Great work mate as always, but I don't really think stats can alone dictate the faction match ups accurately.
In my opinion, at the end of the day, the best numbers to look at would be high level tournament games that also factored in the map and spawns of each player [ as your previous work touched upon]. The Maps dictate the results of a game just as much, if not more than the actual faction matchup itself Automatch stats can't even come close to giving us the full picture of the state of the game.
Yeah, I agree mostly.
The main point of the post is actually the matchmaking, not the last section with the win percentages at the top. I moved some stuff around and reformulated some paragraphs to deemphasize that part, compared with earlier versions.
However, one of the main criticisms of coh2charts is that it doesn't only include games vs. other top players but against all players. Since I actually have the option to factor that in, I figured I'd have to include that due to public demand.
So, I tried to show that coming up with numbers there is actually quite tricky by showing stuff like error estimates and different ways to compute the percentages...
Regarding maps:
The game history also still contains the information about which map was played and I will definitely do a post about that as well (also including the other modes). However, it seems like the starting position is not in the history (at least I couldn't find it), which will probably seriously dilute the results...
Regarding ladder vs. tournaments: I guess you mean that in a tournament setting people will use the cheesiest of cheesy strategies to win, while they might be more willing to derp around on the ladder, try out different things or are willing to quit if confronted with an unfun strategy? Yeah, likely.
Problem with tournies is that you rarely will have enough matches between top players to make any meaningful statistic. The ESL series was great in that regard. But even there: Ok, it's a bit tricky to say due to the EU/NA divide, but VonIvans SOV/Partisan/Maxim-spam strategy seemed to be overall the most effective, yet he was more or less the only player using it, at least consistently...
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I'm intrigued by the disparity in your levels across factions. Like, you have level 12 with Soviets but only level 7 with OH, even though you have about the same number of games with both...
Any feeling about why that might be? |
just curious when you filter for top 100.. does it filter for both players or just onside?
is the criteria like player1 rank<100 AND player 2 rank <100??
or is it player1 rank<100 OR player 2 rank <100???
i would like if its AND... OR adds uneven matchups doesnt it?
It's AND (and it's 200 ).
One caveat: I'm downloading the ladders and the game history of players twice a day. I don't have the ranks of the players when the match starts, only the ranks a couple of hours before and after the game. So, currently I'm just averaging the two.
I made some comparisons to the numbers that you get from coh2charts, and there are several differences:
- For coh2charts it is OR
- Frans actually gets the values from Relic, based on what the ranks of the players before the match were. As mentioned above, that's a piece of information that I don't have.
- Turns out I find only about half the games that coh2charts has for a given rank range, although across all ranks I'm pretty close. So I assume that a lot of games included in there are by players that win a (few) match(es), get into the top 250 and then loose some so they are >250 again before the day ends. This means that coh2charts adds more games with a w/l ratio of just below 50% which I don't have...
Anyways, I don't think that much of the graphs up there is very significant, I guess it's more a measure of which factions were the FOTM factions for the top 10 or so players for the given days. The sample size is just so small...
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Hi Paid Player.
I like what you did with coh2chart, but especially now it would be great to also see the day by day stats you used to have (even if it's just for top 150 and even if its sometimes bugged). Is this possible? It would be helpful to understand what's going on with this patch and the bug fixes etc. A week averaged doesn't cut it in that regard. Of course I am only suggesting it in addition to what you already have.
Not sure how meaningful this is, though. Even the week averages show rather strong fluctuations, so...
Here are 2 week averages, only including games between players that are at rank 200 or better (incl. error bars).
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Tell me how the Pak 40 would work vs Cromwells, Shermans, Comets and Churchills
To give a simple example:
Let's assume your PAK has a 50% chance to penetrate in a certain situation.
This means that if you shoot 4 times, on average you should penetrate twice. However, with the current RNG there is a 25% chance that you only will penetrate once, and about 6% that no shot will penetrate.
On the other hand you have a 25% chance that you penetrate 3 times and about 6% that you penetrate 4 times.
So, this taken together, you have only about 38% chance to actually penetrate twice but a 62% chance to penetrate more or less often.
With pRNG you retain the 50% chance to penetrate, so on average you still will penetrate twice, but by fudging the RNG the chance of that happening is increased. Like, the chances of actually penetrating twice when shooting 4 times might be 80%, with 8% of chance to either penetrate thrice or once and 1% chance to penetrate 4 times or not at all.
So, pRNG should not change the chances to penetrate (meaning it still will be favorable to flank a heavy to increase your chance to penetrate), but it should make it more unlikely to be very lucky or unlucky.
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Welcome!
One comment first: I see that you haven't played a lot of games yet. Specifically, you have not had 10 games for any combination of game mode and faction, so the matches are still your "placement" matches. This means that you will be matched with more or less a random selection of player, which might much better or worse than you.
So, don't despair if you lose badly now, you should get more evenly matched games once you have your 10 games. Until then, I'd stick to one mode/faction to get to this point quickly.
Secondly, you can upload replays here and people way more skilled than me will give you some pointers.
Regarding build orders: Fixed build orders won't work well as the strategy will depend on the map, what faction(s) you face and what your opponent does. Also, they depend on the game mode (1v1, 2v2, etc.).
The rest of the comments are from a 1v1 perspective:
Yes, with mechanized assault you can replace a lot of the non-doctrinal units. Assault grenadiers are an option, but they are not overly good on open maps, scale not too well and don't have a Panzerfaust.
For starters I'd suggest you stick more or less to the standard set of units. Once you know their strength and weaknesses, you'll have a better idea on where and when it could be worthwhile to augment or replace them with doctrinal ones.
The typical build order for Wehrmacht would be
MG and T1, 3x grenadiers (maybe a mortar) => T2
Then, build stuff depending on the situation.
Eventually, the typical progression would be to build T3 and get e.g a Panzer IV from there. Beyond that you can consider pumping out more T3 units, tech up or get some call-in armor.
I guess allied factions aren't really an option for you, right?
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Folks, are you playing for EXP, warspoils and all of that "funservice" shit? It's all irrelevant - play 4 fun, not for virtual points!
OP is about the XP you get in a match which make your CPs increase, not the experience points you receiver after the match... |
While we are at posting XKCD comics, these are somewhat more relevant (Go Relic!):
...ok, maybe the examples aren't super relevant for CoH2, but still... |
I cannot describe how much better having the f word changed to gardening is. Not for any censorship reasons but just because I find it stupidly funny.
Yeah, I'm all for changing even more words.
"cap" > "paint"
"build" > "knit"
and so on. They might set some new RTS lingo standards |
Hi MissCommissar,
cross-reading your posts indicates that you are passionate about the game and your posts are well above the random rant, which both is good.
However, I think there are some flaws in your original statement, because you seem to forget that 6 cons have simply more HP than 4 grens. Even taking "target size" into account, 6 cons have effectively about 440 HPs, whereas 4 grens sit at 351. Likewise, the combined DPS of cons is about 20.6 vs. 23 for 4 grens (point blank). You can do the math, and it turns out that cons on average will win vs. grens at short range. At long range it is the other way around.
This "balance" originally was kept while both squads would level up. However, after the buff to vet3 of cons about almost a year ago (more reduction in "target size"), vet3 cons probably have the upper hand now in slightly more situations vs. vet3 grens.
Now, the obvious "problem" is that grens eventually will get the LMG upgrade, at which point they will win regardless of the distance (unless you are somehow able to keep them moving). You wouldn't be the first person to complain about the lack of a similar upgrade for cons.
However, looking through the soviet commanders it seems pretty obvious that this is not a simple oversight, but a deliberate design choice: Unlike Ostheer, almost every commander has either weapon upgrades for cons, Guards or Shock troops, or other call in infantry. It's ok if you don't like the choice (again you wouldn't be the first one there) but I guess chances of that being changed isn't too high.
That said: I read a lot of your posts. In several of those you complained basically that some Russian units don't have the role of their Ostheer counterpart (e.g. MGs) or that Russians can't e.g. build Ostheer bunkers. Taking this together it sounds like you would be more happy if Ostheer is copied over to Soviets, relabeling the units and using Russian models. Wouldn't that be kind of bland? Btw, glad to hear that you seem to have realized that Ostheer fits your preferred style of play better.
Last comment: In terms of having your squad killed by the main gun of tanks, target size is not overly relevant. They don't get whiped because the tanks hit a model, but because they hit some place close to the squad; and the only thing of importance then is having your guys not bunch up. Guess which property of cons helps them in that situation over grens...
Edit: Molotovs do have impact damage, same as OKW's incendiary grenades. I guess you checked out the stats site? You have to look at the "_MP" version. |