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So i'm guessing this is going to be live-streamed? Wish I could join but im too much of a low-level pleb compared to the other chaps here. |
Yeah it'd be really nice if there was some way to toggle it like hold fire.
There might be using scar. We could bind a command to a button that changes the used squad-ai file for the squad. It was done in some missions from COH1 (namely the first one/D-Day, to disable the attack plan for the defenders). The WW1 mod for COH1 has a good example of a hold position button.
Edit: Just found it in Coh1. There's a action called (ai_plan) that lets you overwrite the squad ai. You could put that on a ability that changes it to a empty plan, and wha-la, squad-ai is disabled. Sadly, I dont think this is in coh2, as I dont remember seeing it as a available action. |
Coh1 horrible AI running around all the time, just hug the flippin wall!
Huddle around a single tree XD
Single trees are meant for snipers and max three man squads.
Why do you think the sov sandbag is so big, stalin had issues ofc.
Squad AI means they won't obey your every command. Shut up and walk past that tank and stop dancing!
Ok they can seem stupid for stopping in red cover, but is it really their fault you just attack move just once, and then go play with your light vehicles?
If you refer to the post above, it is possible to make units "hug the flippin wall" with a few tweaks. It is also very easy to make a simple AI that does obey your every command. We realize competitive players might find squad-ai quite frustrating, and while it might be better if we could add in a button that enables a "competitive mode", we cant do that. We are trying to make it as controllable as possible while keeping it advanced enough for players who want to see a nice-looking firefight. Currently, they still do dance if you order them to walk past a moving tank. That's hard-coded as far as I know. |
To be honest the amount of improvement that units actually standing behind the fucking cover they're meant to fucking stand behind™ had brought to CoH2 since it was altered has improved gameplay responsiveness and importance of cover tremendously unfortunately at an expense of aesthetics.
Is there any way we can strike a nice balance between the two, and just re-introduce a small measure of squad AI?
It is possible to make it so that units do stand behind the fucking cover they're meant to fucking stand behind™ by tweaking/removing the retaliation plan. In I.A.C, I did this with disciplined units (tier 2 and up) so they would hold their ground no matter what. |
I believe there is a prioritization that can be made for types of cover at least. It could be made so squads only seek green cover or avoid red cover by ai, but not for yellow or open cover.
I'll have to wait til the weekend to test this ai anyway, let alone see what could be done with it.
That is possible by changing the safety values of different cover in ebps. Making it so that light cover is the same as open would make it so that the ai does not differentiate between the two. |
The best example are squads with AT weapons. Assume a tank is cruising around the edge of their AT range and you want them to engage the tank. However, since your units will first run for cover (even in the opposite direction of the tank) the tank will have time to get out and you squad will never fire a shot. It's the same problem we had with the Captain against tanks.
CQB units are very similiar, you want them to deliver their full firepower as soon as possible before the enemy pulls out. That hardly works with your Shocks running for cover first. These units are specifically not made for cover mechanics, they are the counter to units in cover.
The general problem is how the automatic seeking cover mechanic causes very frustrating delays or even setbacks such as running back or away from the enemy.
I want my units to do exactly what they are told to do. When I tell them to attack a specific unit, I don't want them to run around and seek cover, I want them to attack this specific unit right now because of a specific reason. (for example when my long range units are being approached by cqb units. Then I want those cqb units dead as soon as possible before they reach the point where they dominate my troops instead.)
Me and Mr. Smith were talking about exactly that. If we could mod the squad-ai, we could easily make it so that units can fire a few shots before looking for cover. It's also possible to make only support weapons (MG's and AT Weapons) fire a few shots before searching for cover, if that is deemed better than giving the whole unit a pause. |
Units running uncontrolled for cover is one of the most cancerous things we finally got rid of. We don't need that back.
A more interesting topic is the abnormal slow turning speed of units...
Could you please elaborate on why you think its a no? |
This has been one of coh2 biggest shortcomings for a long time and has contributed to a great deal of the problems and attempted fixes with game balance.
Respect to you Lugie for figuring this out. I spent months back in 2015 trying to make sense of it and ultimately gave up. I'd given into it being hardcoded out of our control.
Thanks mate. |
I'll need some help to figure all of these out. Would you be up for it?
I also found some interesting move_types under tuning. Most move types have leapfrogging disabled, which is why squads move robotically across the map.
However, does anybody know how to trigger a "user_control_move_type"? That's the only movement type that doesn't have leapfrogging disabled, and I would like to see how it feels.
(tuning and move_types are unmoddable).
To apply a move type, make a ability with override_move_type or something like that, set the move type to user control and priority to 100 (btw, the user_control move type is a left-over from ToV). |
If anybody has any idea how to fix squad-ai (while avoiding gratuitous dancing) let me know, and we can work this out.
Currently, I've no idea how this part of the game functions at all. But yeah, the current lack of movement from squads makes those early game engagements look super-boring for rifle-wielding squads.
EDIT:
CoH1 AI was annoying at times when you wanted to place your squads behind sandbags; they would just spread out and hop around, making cover impossible to use.
CoH2 had some pretty atrocious squad AI back when, every time you would select a target, the squad would perform a little dance. This made guards/captain completely useless as AT platforms.
The ideal solution would be something that makes individual squad members dance while the squad is moving (e.g., how bar riflemen in CoH1 would jump like wildcats for cover while the squad is moving).
For your first query, squad-ai is controlled by the squad-ai files in the Data folder (you can use archive viewer to browse). Most of the AI files in there are mostly blank, with a few exceptions. The ones that have more text are more advanced per-say.
2. That has been fixed in COH2. They don't spread out and hop around if there isn't any good cover around. If there is, say a abandoned truck right next to the sandbags, some of them might get behind that, as they prefer to spread out.
3. That has also been fixed (for the most part). If you refer to my other post, it seems to be something to do with weapon cooldown. Once the unit is out of cooldown and fires, the dancing stops.
4. I think that is mainly to do with squad formations. In COH1, the bar was a slot-item that was tagged as a support weapon. Thus bars would usually stay on the flanks and would have a higher drift cap than riflemen. |
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