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Ah yes, the highly situational slow manual reload 165 fuel costing turd that you need a lot of practice to actually use and not to mention on preferably flat terrain if you want to hit something with it.
Very nice indeed. |
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It's in the All Units mod I believe.
Can be upgraded to a medical halftrack as well which is a cool concept if you ask me but it losses it's combat capabilities for faster speed and durability I think. |
Well that shows. It's basically the equivalent of Tiger Ace release levels of OP.
Because if they are not limited to 1 and they are as strong as suggesting them to be, 5 man PG with bonuses on top, they would had to be prohibitively expensive.
PG are already 340(?) so you are at looking at a "normal" value of at least 400mp. You could balance it at 360mp by making them a single squad, arriving at 3 CP (i think same as Jaeger squad) and them not having a bundle nade.
Comparison to Shocks:
Armor is just a fancy way of using RA which is slightly worse when similar values are accounted for.
Basically 1.5 armor is equivalent to 0.66 RA.
Dude, calm down for Christ's sake.
They're a scrapped unit which probably 90% of the community doesn't even know of and an even bigger percentage hasn't ever tried out and there's been years of patches since any videos of their commander being tried out.
And yeah them being the equivalent price of Obers sounds reasonable like I said, whatever makes them balanced.
Hmm, which could be stronger I wonder. Shock troops or a 5 man PG squad with two flamers and utility. Its a mystery.
Thank you for your input troll #2 but I already said that they should be made in a way that's balanced, which includes removing the flamethrowers from them.
I'm sorry, I have no other way to ask that - are you that stupid or that naive to believe there is any way to balance 5 man dual flamer unit?
There is a reason why every single unused concept unit outside of this one, T34/85 ace(red banner dual T34/85 call-in) and T34 osttruppen(shit tier T34/76 that's more spammable then T-70, you can see it in ToW) made it to the game.
These three go completely against what CoH2 is/tries to be for last 4 years.
I understand that you don't play the game and everything and you only come out of your hole to troll every day but even I would expect you to have the common capabilities of reading and comprehending the English language and if so you would have known by now that I said what I already repeated to the other fellows before.
Now if you would excuse me I have better things to do than argue with someone living in his mother's basement and pretending like he's on a life long vacation from work. |
What i said are not my ideas, it's how the unit is. Seeing that you want the "whole package", let me explain you why it wouldn't work.
If a 2x flamethrower unit is gonna exist it's gonna have to be RET levels of weak with absolutely no extra utility mixed in it. Maybe a satchel charge but the unit would had to be Pio levels of RA and Mp40 Pio levels as opposed to PG STG.
If you want a single flamethrower, it could have slightly stronger models (PG ones with STG) but again, no utility whatsoever and 4 models. Any other combination of utility, flamer and BALANCED requires them to be Pioneers.
The 1x/2x flamer is a dead end however you look at it. Same with implementing an armor upgrade if you want a unit as strong as vanilla model PG.
At the end of the day i think you are forgetting about either Breakthrough equipment and Support package.
Pios can get access to satchel charge, 5 man squad or destroy cover.
PG can get access to repair, improved performance near vehicles, mark infantry or smoke grenades.
The only "unique" thing available to be seen is probable a 5 man PG squad with destroy cover, smoke and probable an incendiary grenade. Probable limited to a single squad. Maybe a BP3 upgrade which replaces the incendiary grenade for a satchel and provides 0.25 armor (similar to RoE Anvil upgrade) for scaling and keeping the theme.
Uhm, okay I guess?
I mean I don't see why you'd have to limit them to only 1 when there's things like Shock troops that aren't limited to just 1 but alright, I haven't used them ever but I liked the concept of a more anti-infantry specialized PG squad with maybe some small utility and armor. |
What do you expect the Assault PG to be ?
5 man PG or 4 man squad.
Deployed with flamer or they have to buy it. Double flamethrower or something else.
Do they buy armor or not.
Satchel charges with smoke.
STG44 or Mp40.
I imagine a 5 man squad, similar to the Assault Grenadiers, but armed with StG44s instead.
And yes I'd also think having the option to upgrade with Armor and Single/Double flamethowers would be nice but that'd be dependent on what would be most balanced and so forth.
Maybe they could have a 3rd utility upgrade of some sort that allows them to for example repair vehicles and plant demolition satchels like the British Sappers to remove cover and obstacles? Or your smoke and charges idea.
Could work. |
Having a doctrine with a 250/1 or the 251 open top halftrack that OKW should already have in the game files would be nice
Agreed.
A 250/251 Halftrack and the StuG III/StuG III E are the only units left with dedicated voice lines for the OKW that haven't been utilized yet. |
I'm quite certain not a single person who has ever valued or was concerned about any kind of balance would like to add them.
Because it's impossible for the community team to balance them before putting them in the game.
Also what do you care exactly, you don't even play the game. Do you even have it installed?
https://youtu.be/-AF0mefa2HA
Unfathomably based
See above. |
Wishlist for future Ostheer changes:
Festung Support: This commander is just so weird with the changes. Especially the only thing unique about it is the forward resupply station but then Joint Operations has it also and comes with a LeFh. Everything else in the commander either is average in it's effect or comes with much better commanders. Command Panzer and Mortar Halftrack can both be found in much stronger commanders imo (Spearhead has a tiger and there are a lot of command panzer to choose from). Relief Infantry and Sector Artillery I think can be agreed that they aren't useless but they don't make a commander standout that much.
IMO this commander needs some retuning to have something that really makes it stand out. Some ideas are like maybe making it the only commander to have the resupply station? Joint Operations having it imo makes it almost impossible to pick any other commander with it because they also have the LeFh on top of it. If not that I think it needs to have something changed within it so it stands out more.
Joint Operations: To add on to what was mentioned above I think this commander is actually gonna suffer from having so many buildable. It lost an artillery off map in favor of another buildable when it already has 2. I think 2 should be picked and the other swapped for something else to keep this from being overloaded.
Close Air Support: This commander I still think is suffering from not really getting any changes. It's not often picked and I think could really benefit from just something. The Luftwaffe Field Officer in place of the AI strafe would pretty much directly upgrade the doctrine by giving it an extra recon on top of the AI strafe. I would say even though it would then be shared with Luftwaffe Supply that these two commanders would still be unique from each other especially after the changes to the latter.
Jaeger Armor Doctrine: This commander I still think needs more nerfs to it as the changes are a good step but not that much has really changed for this commander. The nerf to spotting scopes was warranted but it's kinda been compensated with the addition of Mobile Observation Post to the AT mine. I think the AT strafe should be removed from the commander. An idea could be to replace that with Breakthrough Equipment. Blowing up cover fits the theme of helping spot for the Elefant but it would probably still be weaker than the AT strafe. Or just replace with something even weaker but in general this commander is way to overpicked in team games and needs a substantial change.
Ostruppen as a unit should also probably not get nearly as many buffs as they do currently. The unit is already very strong and we've seen them be very powerful in high level tournaments.
2 ideas that I can give to replace abilities here are the Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers, which could potentially go in Joint Operations since it makes sense thematically to me at least, and maybe a 251 Repair and Recovery Halftrack from the All Units mod, even has animations and everything.
Another idea is an Advanced Panzergrenadier training upgrade that I had that gives the ability to PGs to repair vehicles, build tank traps/caches and so forth but yeah. |
Land Mattress:
* Cost reduced to 280 and 8 pop. (Was 350 and 10 pop)
* Revert the setup/teardown times back to 3
I personally think you guys are being awfully hard on the unit. Its done its job for me when I used it of wiping setup teams and squads on points. No, it can't really handle moving blobs, but it breaks defensive positions well which is what I normally struggle to deal with as Brits. Once you get two, you throw a lot of big barrages downrange, and the wipes start adding up. A cost reduction will help you get the pair of them up and the reduced pop cap would help make it easier to fit them in a max army.
Designate Command Vehicle:
It really just needs a rewrite. As is it just feels completely backwards to use. Its in a faction (and docs) with some incredibly tough units, but the proper way to use it is to put it on the lightest vehicle you own. Take away some of the crazy buffs, and reduce the debuffs in exchange. Tank firepower is just too valuable to diminish, no matter how good the buffs are.
Vanguard Operations Glider:
* Can now build the 81mm Mortar
Brits need as much mobile indirect as they can lay their hands on. If they can't get it through the stock faction, then it needs to be in as many doctrines as possible with the exception of Improved Fortifications.
Commando Glider:
* Can now build the 81mm Mortar
With the new ability of Gliders to build Commandos, I think its worth investigating putting some indirect into Commando Regiment. The doc only unlocks a single unit, while everything else is a munitions sink of varying quality.
Air Resupply Operation:
Can this just drop Vickers and AT Rifles instead of Medcrates? The medkits feel really awkward.
M3 Halftrack:
Likewise, I think it might make for some interesting choices if the M3 dropped AT Rifles rather than PIATs.
Concentration Barrage:
I'm usually pretty critical of these expensive area denial tools, and Concentration Barrage is no exception. The AOE on it does feel larger than the Railway or 240mm, but I'd have to check the hard stats to be sure. Its still really expensive for what it does though.
Further ideas for Commander changes:
VANGUARD OPERATIONS:
* Valentine Light Tank
* Logistics Glider (with added Mortar)
* Vehicle Repair
* Crocodile Churchill
* Hawker Overflight
I've been pretty vocal about my dislike of the vehicle/fast cap abilities, and Raid Operation is no exception. The Valentine would love to see the light of day in another doc, and with the added Mortar would make it a complete doc for Brits.
SPECIAL WEAPONS REGIMENT:
* Tank Hunters
* Resupply Half Track
* Concentrated Fire Operation
* Land Mattress
* Crocodile
Hold the Line and Concentrated Fire Operation together always felt weird. Even with the reduced cost on Hold the Line, you have two huge munitions sinks in a single doc. With Hold the Line moving to Improved Fortifications, it makes sense to drop it from Special Weapons and give it a tool it actually has a chance to use. The combination of the Land Mattress and Crocodile should give this company excellent breakthrough capabilities in the late game.
MOBILE ASSAULT:
* Recovery Engineers
* Smoke Raid
* Infiltration Commandos
* Land Mattress
* Vehicle Crew Repair
I think the Mortar + Land Mattress is probably overkill here. Smoke Raid plays into the theme of a Mobile British force well and helps overcome the poor quality of British Smoke. An alternative munitions sink could likewise work here as well.
ROYAL ENGINEER:
* Recovery Engineers
* Designate Command Vehicle
* Defensive Operations
* Anti Building Mortar Barrage
* AVRE
I'd really like to put the Land Mattress here, but I'm not sure if the balance team would go for 3 docs with it. The improved Defensive Operations is a decent alternative for an Engineering Company, which should excel at things like constructing fortifications and laying mines.
Summary:
In total, these changes would give some form of mobile indirect to every doctrine except Advanced Emplacement and Royal Engineers. (And even RE I'd love to see get some)
4 Doctrines would have access to a Mortar, although everyone but Lend/Lease is going to have to do some side teching to get it. (possibly too much) 2 Doctrines would now have the Land Mattress, and Royal Artillery would have the Sexton.
Finally, the changes would help balance out some of the awkward munitions costs in most Docs, although Commando remains largely untouched with a full 4 abilities.
Adding the mortar team to the Gliders is an interesting idea, similar to how it was done in the old CoH Commando Regiment.
I approve. |
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Or they could just introduce a 222 upgrade for the 221 behind a tech lock so if you want to use it in combat you can. |
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