u can play vehicles but not too much cause it is an overkill
when u play ht and mortar and get some vet ur opponent is then playing sniper so u have the unvet acs wh en u buy then an ac as counter unit
so not good yeah the meta is ac into atht maybe mortar then panther and hummel
Yes, that's the point. The vehicles are useless/unnecessary because Pgren blob > all.
About the sniper stuff. If the 221 actually turns its turret around in decent time you can use it to counter snipers just aswell as with a 222 AC. Also, you can get vet on 221 scout cars and then upgrade them into 222 ACs early on.
Also, if you nerf snipers from the vcoh factions this issue becomes less important. Weaker snipers + better counter for PE = happy PE player.
I really like your non-doctrinal changes to Panzer Elite, seems that it completely changes their dynamic. Can't agree with most of the doctrine changes though, especially completely removing Luftwaffe doctrine. As earlier said, Panzer Elite was based on the rag-tag group of troops that retreated from France and faced the British during the Operation Market Garden. I would though change some of the abilities that they receive from doctrines.
Touching the British subject, I once had a crazy overhaul idea of my own, aimed to change the ridiculous mechanic of blobbing around the lieutenant. First of all, I made the British units move at full speed even in non-friendly territory, made Tommies cheaper and weaker, but kept the reinforcement cost the same (probably should change them too). The weirdest thing I planned was to give British global veterancy that they actually unlocked from earning experience. Basically, you go along earning your exp as usual and when certain number is achieved in the global experience pool, you had a choice in your HQ to pick between global vehicle or infantry veterancy.
The lieutenant and captain lost their "aura" bonuses for other abilities, some of which were unlocked after picking doctrine plus they weren't one man squad any more. Plenty of similarities with officers in CoH2, but I think that it's way better this way.
Though I did plan to make changes in the doctrines too, where Royal Canadian Artillery was to receive the most changes, as I wanted to make it less about artillery, but also about assault follow.
Yes, brits require more work, as their base design is just too flawed to be fixed by shifting units around. |
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Kiraye is actually right on that one. Also, you guys seem to completely forget about the pretty decent suppression from the Maxson, even on long range it provides supression after like 2 bursts... |
pe gets vehicles too early???? U know the name Panzer Elite Not infantery elite???
and ofc in real it was 2 different fight units
but in the game
pe works perfect when wehrmacht support pe with mgs 1 or 2 sniper 3 or4 paks ops rep bunker and then pump out t4 units stuka and maybe 88
so wehr hast nothing 2 push or fight only support for the panzerelite(not infantery elite) 
Then tell me why nobody builds halftracks except for AT HTs? all I see from PE is pgren spam into pIV or dual AC into Hetzer.
I don't see why Panzer Elite should have 10 halftracks with paper armour. Halftracks are no panzers at all.. A Panzer in CoH is immune to small arms fire. PE halftracks die from being farted at.
The name Panzer Elite is stupid. I'm sure they used it to please those pseudo-german-american-fanboy shit about Nazi germany stereotypes.
It's a fantasy name, just like Starship Trooper, Uruk Hai, Dragon or whatever. If it would be accurate it would need to be Aufklärungs-Abteilung, or Recon-Division in English. Those divisions used light vehicles like halftracks, had infantry support and used schwimmwagens etc. But they had NO heavy tanks whatsoever. Not even a Panzer IV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufkl%C3%A4rungsabteilung
Just to get a quick overview. And yes, this actually matters. Both USA and Wehr are based off infantry companies/divisions during invasion of normandy. And they actually only use units that were available in those divisions. PE is a fantasy faction. |
I answered directly in purple, because I don't want to keep hitting the quote and /quote options.
First of all. There are several concepts now in this thread. Concept 1 is from Carlos, he focuses on putting PE more in line with wehr, doing asthetic changes to make vehicles more streamlined.
grille low artellery????
Grille is 150mm artillery just like the Hummel. Difference is that Hummel is on panzer IV chassis and Grille on Panzer38t chassis. The idea from Carlos is due to PE having several p38(t) chassis vehicles - Marder III, Hetzer, Hotchkiss.
and then what get the brit and the american howitzer it isnt strong???
u build atm a new faction and no balance for pe
That's the point. Sort of.
this is totally bullshit
all say pe is op
and wehrmachtt? 7 t1 units with def doc??? not strong? 
PE isn't op, it's just that some of their game mechanics suck, their light vehicles suck and that's why their infantry has to be stronger than anything to compensate.
and upgraded scoutcar to an ac?? so i need tech too counter sniper spam?? and spend ammo or fuel for the cannon upgrape
Idk if you've actually ever used the sdkfz 221. If the gun's horizontal speed is increased the 221 is more than capable of killing/chasing snipers. The 222 is optional. Actually, even in this release version on 2.602 the 222 AC has 40 health less than the 221. It's just that the 221 gun moves so slowly that it's useless. Also, t1 useless in terms of vehicles.
i`m happy that relic never will patch coh1 
cause of this
u will see when u do that what u write here it will be totally bullshit...
It's a concept, not bullshit. PE has several flaws, which are:
1) paper armour on vehicles, which result in most units having a very tight window in which they can be useful. Afterwards they're a waste of resource to build
2) blobbing bonuses
3) weakness to early tanks/light vehicles
4) Pantherspam in teamgames/getting heavy tanks without limit for manpower only
5) No real anti-blob weapons apart from sector arty/Hummel (so limited to 1 doc)
6) broken vet system (defensive vet always better than offensive vet, especially for vehicles) Shared vet isn't as bad as people make it out to be though
7) Ketten OP with hidden detection, fast movement and sdkfz22x armourtype.
ofc Pe also has strengths:
1) very early vehicles that can have a huge influence on the battlefield
2) many specialization options for infantry and vehicles
3) very fast teching
4) strong doctrinal units that can fill up holes in the own teching
5) start off with their mainline infantry
i have read pe gets puma??
why?? pe is an faction for axis
axis is the support and pe the fight faction
Axis is based off a historical infantry division from the Wehrmacht in 1944 that was stationed in northern france. PE is basically a mix of all units that fought near Arnheim during operation market garden. Luftwaffe forces, Jagdpanthers etc. I don't know if you thought of that "axis is support and PE is fight faction" yourself or heard it from someone else. It's actually wrong. Both factions fight/play for themselves, and work independently.
. Anyways, idk what's your problem. PE grens need to be blobbed because like 60% of the faction units do not what they should do, or do nothing at all. Because every vehicle has 5 hp and paper armour, getting destroyed by being farted at. So, pe has to rely on their pgrens to do the job, and only use the halftracks that can do micky mouse actions, like treadbreak on the AT HT. Those abilities are considered broken throughout the whole community, are bullshit and no fun to play against.
But what if those abilities are simply removed? Answer is: PE would be completely worthless as a faction. I originally thought you could fix PE by making the AC stronger but available later and delaying halftracks for 35 more fuel. But the faction has deeper flaws that need adressing to actually "fix" the faction.
The idea behind mine and Carlos concept is to make the vehicles worth getting throughout the game, without being useless. Riflemen with bars? Oh no ... Pgrens will die  (( . Luckily the new PE can fight back with a REAL armoured car that doesn't get damage on long range from BAR rifle fire. |
Hmm it sounds like you removed A LOT though... this could make the game very pale. And leave the PE without typical characteristics.
But I do get the point that you wanted to get rid off all the bullshit 
lol!
Well, it's actually interesting that Carlos adjusted quite a few stuff in his concept which I also thought about in a similar manner.
Currently I'm rethinking the way PE uses their vehicles/upgrade system. The idea of putting the light AT HT into t1 is actually a very good idea, I had something like that in my mind, also at some point. Also, the 221-222 upgrade system makes a lot of sense. Same with Pgren health adjustments and the long barrel pIV.
This is what came into my mind for PE ideas after some discussions with GeneralCH and reading in this thread:
Panther battlegroup removed
warning shot removed
treadbreak removed
group zeal reworked
vet sergeant reworked
overdrive reworked (engine needs to cooldown after usage, and ability lasts only 10secs instead of 30)
stg44 costs 100 ammo instead of 75
Sprint reworked - easier available, no supression resistance anymore
Upgrades like improved repairs etc. could be kept the way they are, just shifted around in the tiers accordingly.
vet changes:
def vet for vehicles no longer gives more speed, instead better acceleration/deceleration
off vet adds range bonus for vehicles
for infantry:
def vet remains the same
off vet also remains the same
Teching: t1/t2-t3/t4
Starting res: 400mp, 15f
Tier 0:
Pgrens (more base health, 60-65 hp/man instead of 55, cost increase to 270)
ketten/schwimm (gets motorbike armourtype like schwimm/bike, increased health to compensate)
nades (cost reduced to 120mp/15f)
Tier 1: 150mp/15f
scout car 221 - can't capture sectors anymore (upgrade to 2cm 222 requires teching)
muni ht
reworked at ht (requires teching) - at ht can switch between he and ap shells, he shells have less range, are less accurate, but reliably kill infantry. ap gives more range, better accuracy & dmg vs. vehicles. overall increased damage)
tech costs 100mp/30f)
Tier 2: 200mp/45f
Halftrack (stubby/mortar upgrade requires teching)
assgrens (requires teching)
upgrade 150mp/30f unlocks mortar/stubby/assgrens+stg44
Tier 3: 220mp/30f (unlocks schrecks)
at grens
vampir ht
puma 50mm (requires teching)
marder (requires teching)
tech 100mp/30-40f
Tier 4: 220mp/80f (possibly could also unlock Schrecks)
bergetiger
pIV (upgrade to long barrel after teching)
Sturmpanzer IV (requires teching)
tech 200mp/40-60f
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Ready?!
Go. |
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I think t70 are pretty potent at fighting okw units, at least if your enemy didn't reach a critical mass of panzerschrecks already. It's way more accurate than a t34 and can kill enemy soldiers even on retreat pretty reliably.
I had some reasonable success by using commanders with M1937 field guns and ppsh - usually that's enough to fight enemy units head on. If you aim your arty carefully you can wipe many units at once. Just make sure that you build it in your base defensively, and use mines to prevent vehicles rushing it.
What sucks though is that the t70 is destroyed by a few shots from the flak base truck, though. But you can micro around it. |
NO PE REWORK! I AGAINST HTIS! I DISAGREE!  |
I fear that Relic won't adapt the changes because they fear that their pride gets hurt when they openly accept that a community member did a better job in balancing than their team for months.
It's not better. It's simply against their design guidelines. That's why they won't put changes like that in. |
I recall call-ins replaced units from their corresponding tier buildings. Shocks and guards replacing penals, T34/85 replacing T34/76, Tiger replacing Panther etc.
When thinking of it the whole system makes way more sense than the current one. Luckily, they changed it to something more random...  |
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