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Penal buff to near-Rifleman effectiveness on top of a reduction in the buff to Cons would just basically lead to no one building Cons anymore. I'm in favor of giving SOME kind of buff to Penals, though. Honestly, between the molotovs on Cons and the flamethrower on Combat Engies, Penals having flamethrowers just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe giving them an AT weapon upgrade instead? Besides the AT nade upgrade on Cons, Soviets have no non-doctrinal anti-armor infantry.
Then again, that'd probably make it way to easy to spam snipers and counter a 222 with your Penals. Hrm.
Maybe replace Con PPSH upgrades in commanders with a DP machine gun and give Penals a stock upgrade to three PPSHs?
I don't know, I need more coffee |
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I haven't read through the entire thread but... I mean, can't you just NOT build all of your trucks in one place? Granted if they use the ability, you're still guaranteed to lose that truck, but he's basically spending 325 munitions at that point to eliminate one of your tech structures that you'll eventually be able to rebuild.
As others have said, there's a HUGE delay from when it's called in to when the payload actually hits. If you're playing OKW against the Brits and you lose more than one truck to Air Supremacy, aren't you sort of asking for it?
It's kinda like how building emplacements against the OKW is sort of asking for them to be destroyed by ISGs.
Also, the argument that on cramped maps, you have no way to spread your trucks out is kinda moot, because on smaller maps like that, you're not really hurting yourself putting one or two trucks in your base anyway.
Shrug. |
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I would disagree with never, ever getting the American 57mm. It's probably the worst AT gun in the game, but it's your only real option until you can get a Sherman or Jackson on the field. Bazookas can make it happen against lighter armor like Pumas and Flaktrucks, but they won't be able against a combined force of an Ostwind or Panzer IV and infantry.
I almost always build both the 57mm and the Pack Howitzer in T3, then a second of one or the other depending on the situation.
With USF, you need flex your early muscle. Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, grenades is a solid plan against Wehrmacht. Smoke and frag machine guns and mortars and do your best to recrew them (especially the MG42). Against OKW, I tend to go Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Ambulance instead to keep the pressure up on the front line.
Getting a fighting position with a machine gun on your fuel or cutoff or both, as I often do, is a pretty solid play. Be sure to protect them.
For AT, I usually transition from an AT gun or two into 2 Jacksons, with a Sherman kicking around the field for the occasional HE round into the middle of a Volks or Gren blob. Keep in mind if you're out of pop cap, you can pop the crews out of vehicles to cheat the system and let you build more armor.
3-4 Riflemen with BARs, two Pack Howitzers, a Sherman and 2 Jacksons is a pretty potent fighting force that's ready for just about anything. Do you best to work toward something resembling this and you'll be in a good place. Even you can squeeze an HMG in there somewhere, even better. On smaller, more close range maps you'll get a lot of punch out of the Elite Rifle commander with flamethrowers and the buffed Easy 8. Infantry Company will give you the LMG (which is a bit so-so now compared to the kick you get our of BARs), sandbags and MINES!
Airborne's kind of in a weird place now, since Riflemen are very capable infantry now and the P47 strike is by most accounts pretty underwhelming for the cost in an already munitions-starved faction.
Armor Company can still be very effective if you spam M10s, though I personally would avoid the Dozer Sherman. Might not hurt to tech Major to get a Sherman out if you're rocking the fuel advantage to dish out some anti-infantry punch while the M10s take care of all of your AT.
Hope some of this was helpful! |
let me see alexander uses actual facts to prove his points while the person quoting him are not using it alright,rather using false assumptions and labels to throw here and there..hmmm i see
on topic i think rifles were fine previous match because the win rate was almost 50/50 but no relic heard allied fanboys cry that we cant rofl stomp the axis so please over buff them.....well tbh only bar buff was needed which would have easily solved theri late game issue but no here have -25 recieved accuracy on top of that relic are so dumb they cant get their head around on things smalll incrmental changes can have huge impact on the game relic needs to post more patches in a month with incremental changes a little by little only then u can easily balance but no 8 FUCKING years and the norm of overbuff and over nerf still continues.....relic plz
The only punctuation this mother fucker knows is condescending ellipses.
How were Rifles "fine" last patch? They had the worst scaling and the highest bleed. Now they have the highest bleed and some of the BEST scaling in the game.
Holy shit, that... that almost makes sense, guys. More expensive units with performance commensurate with their cost? My fucking word, I think we're onto something, lads. |
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Rifles have been fixed, not over buffed. Previously, they were essentially a liability in the late game since they'd get shredded to piece at the outset of any engagement with well-vetted Grenadiers and Obers armed with light machine guns.
Alex's argument that they're too strong for a 5 man squad is silly given how terrible their late game performance was prior to this patch combined with the absurd reinforcement cost.
The meta will adapt, and I'm sure certain Axis units will see some buffs in the next patch to compensate a bit, but as far as I'm concerned, with their being one of the most expensive core infantry unitw in the game and the ONLY non-doc infantry the USF have, their performance is where it always should have been. Veterancy 3 Riflemen are finally good - even great.
It's a celebration, bitches. |
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The trouble with Riflemen was two-fold.
1) They scaled terribly into the late game
2) They have the highest reinforcement cost of any core infantry
Riflemen essentially had an expiration date on their effectiveness, being great in the early games for smoking and fragging and awful late game since they would show up to engagements with vetted Grenadiers and say, "There's Fritz, guys! Let's take 'em d-AAAAAHHRRGLGLBLRRHHRHRL... For Pete's sake already!"
All while any losses you inflict on his Grenadiers costing nill while your Riflemen that dropped like flies were basically just a big hole in your manpower bank.
POST PATCH though, veteran 3 Riflemen are some of the biggest take-no-shit infantry in the game, able to stand up to Grenadiers and Obers at range pretty respectfully while their BARs got a pretty nice buff to their fire on the move.
Building lots of REs to avoid bleeding manpower with Riflemen might still be effective in some other ways, but given the durability of late game Riflemen, I would say it's not worth it. The manpower bleed shouldn't be as atrocious as it was, which was the whole reason RE spam became a thing in the first place. |
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I think at this point, the T34/76 ought not be at the center of anyone's overall strategy. It's a low health generalist tank, not particularly great at anything, that arrives at a time when the enemy's strategy and intentions should be a bit more clear. If he's going to push an armor advantage, you're better off with a couple of SU76s or an SU85. If you're up against a Pak dig, you might want a Katyusha. If he's still just spamming infantry, a T70 or M5 with the quad might still, even at that stage, be more sensible.
The only time I feel the urge to build a T34 is when I already have a heavy on the field (the ISU or IS2), I'm up against an enemy heavy like the Jagdtiger, King Tiger or Elefant and I want something that can rush in and flank, maybe even ram.
I build T34s to throw them at the enemy with little consideration for their survival while my more dedicated units hold the line.
As much as I can appreciate the new Soviet tech structure, with T3 arriving so much more quickly, I do kinda miss my fuel cache into T3 and T34/76. It used to hit the field early enough that it could pick up some veterancy and be a truly effective unit. Now it just makes more sense to build several SU76s.
Sigh. |
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"Panzershreck should be removed"
If you take away the panzershreck, what's the point of ever building Volksgrenadiers over Panzerfusiliers? The shreck is what makes the Volks the Volks. Upgrading them with a panzershreck should simply have a more noticeable detrimental impact to their anti-infantry performance, the same way it does with Riflemen and bazookas.
"Su85 needs a penetration and accuracy buff, and reduced ROF. Slight cost increase (150)"
The buff to its penetration at the cost of a bit of ROF would set it apart from the SU76, as they currently have the same penetration values (thus why the SU85 is less common these days). Increasing the cost to 150 is a bit ridiculous, though. 120 is fine.
"Cons damage reduced by %20 while reciveing %30 more accuracy at vet 3 to compensate"
lolwat
"REs cost reduced to 120, can't pickup stuff any more"
I think you already heard everything you needed to hear about this elsewhere.
"Sherman cost reduced to 290/90"
Sherman's fine for the current cost. It's a tank with great anti-infantry punch and decent anti-armor, plus on the go repairs.
"Jackson penetration increased to 420, cost up to 400/150"
150 fuel for a TD as flimsy as the Jackson? Nawww. Jackson's fine as it is. I'd like to see it be slightly more durable, but it's the only TD with relative speed and a turret, so eh. |
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As for the salty exchange preceding this comment, the PPSH gave Cons very solid close range DPS, but late game, they didn't have the durability to get the most out of it. Inevitably, you were forced to put them in cover rather than rush the enemy position, and trading fire from cover, the PPSH upgrade was indeed effectively a downgrade. Hence the changes being made.
Was it a God-awful upgrade? No, especially if you have Guards backing them up and forming your main line while you use Conscripts with SMGs to flank.
The changes, though, will make it a through and through upgrade to their performance now, which is great. |
I rarely make mistakes (anymore), but It's always very funny to see you jump on each and everyone one like this is some game you score points in lol.
Anyway the 40% reduction in Rec Acc they get at Vet 3 is a lot higher than the 29% Ass Grens get at vet 3. Cons at Vet 3 will be very durable due to the nature of six men + fast&cheap reinforce + sandbags + Oorah to escape dangerous situations.
Really it's a boring fix for the problem when the PPsH was already getting some love but w/e. I guess conspammers will be happy.
They're clearly wanting each faction's core infantry unit to be effective (or at least, effective enough to want to keep them around) in the late game. Besides Oorah and the tactical flexibility that comes with that, their ability to merge and their six man presence, Conscripts are comparatively mediocre against their Axis counterparts, Grens and Volks, that are just as manpower efficient.
It isn't a boring fix at all - certainly not in lieu of a doctrine weapon upgrade receiving a buff. |
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