Completely agreed with the two above posts - you must remember how many small arms there are shooting at the vehicle - it deals a lot of damage because there may be 30+ models shooting at the same time. A lot of squads are upgraded with weapons like lmgs - from my experience they deal more damage than regular rifle carabines; add the fact that there are no crew repairs on ost vehicles and it simply often happens that they have to operate damaged for some time, which makes them voulnerable for longer periods of time than US vehicles. |
AP shells are completely superfluous for the 57mm against light vehicles - they provide no damage increase unlike the M36 Jackson's and increase armour penetration by 50% which the 57mm already cannot fail to penetrate with basic shells.
didnt't know about that, but that's good. Still, forgot to add two bazookas that they get. 1 with arnored car and its crew (for free), the other on captain (just 50 muni). |
I meant 57 - its true though you may one shot 222 without AP round, but for puma it works nice; I simply forgot about mgs - with or without AP rounds they kill ost lights especially rus call in mg. |
222 - the problem is total lack of balance - when facing US ost light vehicles face:
1. riflemen with at grenades
2. almost any US unit can be equipped with at least 2 bazookas
3. a rifleman squad can have both the bazookas and at grenades
4. US at guns have extra ap shells – intended for heavies but can be used agains any vehicles
5. ost vehicles can only be repaired by pios
6. 222 susceptible to small arms fire
All the above density of AT solutions and lack of easy, quick repairs means ost should have a light vehicle that is actually stronger than stuart to balance the game. All the changes you suggest will just make it a bit more balanced but will leave ost still at a disadvantage tbh.
I wrote all the above to make all US fanboys finally start thinking of how much imbalance there is between those armies - not necessarily because of unit stats.
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Yes it is, but you're probably too bad or Axis fanboy to release it.
I'm not any fraction fanboy. I just don't like players who can't see the obvious and make unreasonable comparisons. I play all fractions and playing US is ridiculously easy compared to ost. U just klick and kill. With ost U have to be much more skilled and simply lucky to win. I don't like it. |
USF = free lt/cpt/major
Ostheer = free pfaust/grenade/lmg unlock. We can also argue that shrecks are freely unlocked for pzgren.
To be honest - what a comparison is that?? Do you really think that 3 free powerful units can be compared to some unlocking of abilities that one needs munitions to pay for?? Those units are manpower cheap and that's the problem. With captain and lt you get very powerful squads that will kill grens easilty even appraching them when they are behind cover. It leads to US having many more units on the field and pushing off axis easily who need to retreat units and stop capping and spotting to build base buildings. I'm sorry to write it but U completely don't understand how much imbalanced it is. It's not about unit stats but battlefield presence - US just outnumber ost by too many squads and men on the field. Secondly, once you get a captain you unlock 50 munition bazooka, which is more than enough to kill 222 because its armor is paperthin. With lt you get free mg and thompson. How can anybody be so blind not to see that? |
Really i can undeastand ppl, thay whine that light tanks wipe so its need nerf but in antoher side lets add wipe for ostheer , i can undestand where logic there ?
I meant that there are 2 options: Give a similar vehicle to axis OR make armored mediums more expensive in manpower terms to refect how powerful they are. |
Hi - I'm not sure everybody defines the problem the same way. To me, the problem with light vehicles is that they are often like snipers with armor immune to small arms fire. They wipe squads too easily without any way to stop them unless the player is not careful (with stuart that may not even help as it will repair itself). Biggest problem are Brit armored car, stuart, t70. The problem is because both puma and 222 are voulnerable to small arms and at snares + rifles can have both snares and bazookas. So no balance - allied fractions have powerful mediums while ost/axis don't. It leads to another problem - to counter them reliably you must build a pak and invest 320 manpower. Then ost must position it well and wait until your opponent overextends an armored car. Good players won't do that. They will push with infantry because ost spent 320 manpower on a pak and has fewer frontline infantry squads to counter allied inf. This is lack of balance again. If US player is of equal skill, US wins too easily and possibly decrews the pak. Generally the game is really broken here (unless somebody really wants to have skirmishes with better players losing to newbies - maybe that's not a bad idea after all - new players can play and win against veterans). Anyway, I like the intial suggestion with manpower cost for mediums - they should be more expensive manpowerwise than a pak - they're better than elite inf - why shouldn't they cost similar amout of manpower when a counter to them is so expensive, fragile and requires so much positioning? |
Wow - I agree with both ideas - either give some simlar light vehicle to ost (must wipe squads and models in a similar way to allied vehicles and be immune to small arms fire), or increase the cost - spending more mp on a pak to deal with light vehicle makes ost too voulnerable to allied inf on the field, as they simply outnumber ost and get powerful units for teching (quite cheap when it comes to mp). |
So 222 counter stuart? |