Dear everybody 
1. make mg42 line of sight as long as maxim.
2. Do sth to stop pack howie making insane dmg to ost infantry.
3. Allow stock repair bunker option
a player with a lot of coh experience and insight, a fan since coh1 beginning Trust me on my diagnosis |
Agreed. I forgot to add much better veterancy which often makes units almost immune to dropping models even when they charge mgs (bunker or mg42) head on. Very often they manage to cap a point under fire taking no casualties - completely impossible for ost where units drop models almost immediately when under fire. I'll try the dug in strat and see |
The way I see it, Ost is not designed to repeatedly 'tank' damage with its armour, as it can take too long to repair. Its not designed to be overly aggresive and apply hard pressure, like allied tanks are, which is why allies need faster repairing.
Ost tanks are designed to slow grind the enemy, and play defensive, trying to avoid as much damage as possible, here is a host of things that helps you do this:
Many Ost units can use RANGE to stay out of trouble;
- Elifant is obvious example
- Command P4, use it so your grens/paks win the infantry war
- Hull down, I really like it for Ostwinds and Panthers, its soo underused, but the added range keeps them from taking too much damage, esspecially backed up with panzer smoke, keep infatry forward to screen them.
- Brumbar has vet 1 barrage, to wreck stationary inf/support weapons at a safer range
A mistake people can make with the faction (imo), is relying to heavily on the armour, its still the infatry that needs to win you the late game most of the time.
A good example is trying to use panthers as your main anti armour, the slow rate of fire will mean you get out DPS by opponent and out repaired at same time. You should always rely on paks or maybe elefant as main AT, keep the panther just out of harms reach, and when the enemy takes a volley of Pak fire, if you think you can finish it, you chase with the panther.
Panther is a chase unit, to add needed speed and manouverabilty to otherwise slow Ost. But its not meant to work on its own (unlike say T34/85).
Fully agreed. I didn't know that you get extra range with hull down. Still, I believe that all the things You mentioned create quite dark image of ost atm. Being stationary and counting on your opponents mistakes rather than taking initiative. Also allies have too many tools to break you in 1v1. Slow repair speed made sense in the past when allied tanks were paper thin. After all the patching in the last years they are almost as durable as ost vehicles. Look at bulldozer sherman, pershing or elite mediums such as sherman 76 or easy eight. It seems fine when fighting okw but it kills the fun of playing ost. To me the beginning for ost is not so much problematic. Thevreal problems start mid game imo with new commanders and insta kill abilities such as pack howie, off maps, and tanks that may easily kill infantry or now more than ever powerful jacksons. In the powercreep race ost is simply left behind imho.
Bur thanks for a decent mid game strat with command tank and hull down. A bit susceptible to fire (paks especially) but seems like a decent solution. Wish the command tank was combined with camo commander and junkers plane support. |
Have you actually tried the build though?
Yep. Now many times. So much fun . Thx a lot. Really cool opening. Opponents quit after max 15-17 min. I'll see how far it can take me.
And what I totally like about it is that it really/finally bleeds your opponents. Grenadiers take too much time to make allies drop models which gives them too much time to react. Wit this they finally have to be careful. |
Zooks shouldn't be much of a problem for a p4, unless you are talking about elite zooks(paratroopers and rangers after the new update).
This is exactly what I have problems with. What is the difference between elite zooks and non elite zooks?
And thanks for p4 info. I often built a few p4 and it used to work. Now I guess it's better to have one and tech. |
Thanks a lot
Mid-late game all depends on what the enemy does, your t3 and t4 choices are mostly independent from your early game strategy, so you just get the tanks that you think would help you the most.
I have problems with p4 and to me it seems almost useless agains elite infantry or generally zooks. In the past with 1v1 you almost never teched to the last tier. What about now? Do you build a lot of p4? |
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Ok. but what about mud-late game? |
It does give you an insight on how you can play and improve, as Kimbo managed to show why ostheer is better suite for aggressive play lately.
The latest meta could be ostruppens, but there isn't really a meta going on for them right now.
It does also show how carelessly us player lost some of his squads. I still believe it was a dream game for ost player with almost 0 mistakes. On the other hand, lots of mistakes on usf side. Also, north/top on this map is a better position to start. |
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And do you guys have any tips on mid-late game? I struggle agaist AT guns mix and allied tanks. With US with airborne (infantyry is super durable) and pack howitzers (which one hit squads taking half health even when squad is on the move). With Soviet, shocks or guards mixed with tanks and fire arty kill my support weapons + occasional zis barrage kill me like crazy. Brits kill with insanely upgraded and durable rifle squads and later with tanks. Oh, and the slow repair of ost. I usually have 2 pio squads which repair tanks but it is still so much slower than us or uk. |
I have been doing a similiar strategy, however I put more emphasis on pgrens, rather than the 222(maybe I can get away with it due to playing on a lower skill level). I found it to work better against usf without mechanized. This means no early vehicle to exploit your lack of fausts, and riflemen don't do well against pgrens, especially if pgrens have ambush training(I think this ability makes pgrens way more flexible and useful).
I think this strategy only really works if your opponent doesn't expect you to do it, because there are a lot of weaknesses for them to exploit. Mines are more powerful against this build, a sniper would bleed you a lot, light vehicles have more freedom. But if your enemy doesn't exploit these, you have pgrens as your main infantry units, jager command squad to conpensate for lack of T1 with faust and smoke. Having pgrens instead of grens really changes how you play and, I think, makes ost a lot more agressive than normal, while having options for ambushes to defend.
Hard to say if there are good ways to keep map control at the start of the game, other than using your 4 units with perfection.
I'm afraid that may be one of the very few options ost has atm. But tbh I have more problems later in the game. |
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