No, being able to HIT the squad is what wipes it.
AoE helps here, but is not a main stat, unless your shooting nuclear missiles at your target.
And it doesn't matter if its one shot or two if at the end squad got wiped rapidly without giving much space for reaction.
The minute a squad is hit and loses a few models it will retreat, but with 1 shot squad wipes you have no time to react at all. Just boom and your dead.
It's the reason why Soviets are so powerful, they have a lot of tools to wipe squads very fast.
The Pack Howitzer isn't great, it's just okay. The ISG is legit garbage because you need to be using it in direct fire to hit anything, and it still doesn't do enough AoE to reliable wipe and kill squads.
The ISG can't destroy buildings very well either while being expensive, which sucks because it's a big hole in OKW's tool box.
TLDR: Both the Pack and ISG need help. |
Actually, the scatter is everything so, as per usual, you're wrong.
Compare StuG-E and IS-2 for relevance.
IS-2 is nowhere near StuG-E in killing infantry and it have lot more AoE and damage.
AoE is everything because being able to do more damage over a wider area ensures more squad wipes. The StuG E is better at killing enemy infantry than the IS2 because the StuG is a dedicated anti-infantry tank but even then the StuG E's 1 shot ability is far less due to it's AoE damage dropping off hard were the IS2 has a more gentle curve with higher damage.
The Axis issue of 4 men squads means when facing units with higher AoE your more likely to get squad wiped. For allies this isn't as much of an issue due to higher squad counts. There is a reason the Stug Ausf E isn't very good VS soviets.
The ISG is crap because even when you do hit you won't be killing much at all, but the Pack Howitzer is facing smaller squads that are easier to 1 shot while having higher AoE.
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It may come at 8CP, same like KV8 but KV8 provide you great push power. KV1 cant do that. It's only advantage is armor which in fact it is still terrible. ~35% to bounce schreck? How many % Tiger/KT/Panther have to bounce bazooka, 57mm and even ZiS? And there will be usually 2 AT gun shooting at you while you may see 4-5 Schrecks shooting at KV1. In fact many times one volley is enough to push back KV1 unless you are RNGesus behind your backs but that's unlikely.
Quick example, how often to you see AT nades bouncing from Panther? For me it's something common, almost in every game.
How often you see KV1 bouncing pzfaust? In 1300h I saw it only 3 times.
Point is, KV1 may have amazing armor when compare to USF units but it's like chagning wooden stick to a brozne stick while you need steel.
Why Panther should be worry? It's KV1 which should be worry. 1 shot from panther, 1 volley from 3 schrecks and you already have to fall back.
Pershing is not about standing agasint Axis armor. It's about having something else than Jackson to deal damage. Every faction has 4-5 late game AT options. US Forces have only 1 in fact. That's the point we are talking here. Not damage sponge, but useful late-game AT unit.
As a stock unit I would choose KV1 over T34 really rare. It may have better armor but it's really slow. You can't penetrate anything what OKW has from the front, you have to flank. T34 is perfect for this. Quick attack and retreat. Jumo around the corner, wipe Pak40 and go back.
KV1 and T34 have advantages but T34 would be more useful most times and it still a way cheaper.
I already have said that I think USF needs more AT options, but a damage sponge would go a long way towards making USF late game less hectic, and it's armor is by no measure terrible, it's got only 30 less frontal armor than a Tiger, while being faster.
The T34 is only 1 speed faster than the KV1, and it can't often bounce shots from enemy AT guns nor can it bounce shreks, or fausts, or anything else. It also doesn't have nearly as much health. The KV1 functions excellent for the amount you pay for it. The KV8 is utter shit for pushing because any disciplined player will just spread his units and DPS you down quickly due to the KV8's reduced armor.
The Panther should worry because it has crap DPS, 2 KV1's can easily ruin a Panthers day. And that's the KV1's power, it's cheap, effective, and in number's it can overwhelm the enemy due to it's high health and armor while still being quite mobile for a heavy tank.
On average the Pfaust only has a 55% chance to pen a KV1 at medium range, and a 51% chance at max. Which means it's not entirely uncommon for a KV1 to bounce a faust if your not a dumbo who reveals your rear armor to the enemy.
I agree, Jackson is the lone late AT option and that is it. In vCoh, we had the option of upgrading the "fun" on the Sherman but in Coh2, nope call in doctrinal Ez-8s.
Pmuch, USF needs more diverse AT options, but it does also need more durable tanks. |
Please refrain from spreading false information.
| pack howie | le ig |
| damage | 80 | 80 |
| ready aim time max | 0.5 | 0.125 |
| ready aim time min | 0.125 | 0.125 |
| aoe radius | 6 | 4 |
| fire wind down | 2 | 1 |
| fire wind up | 0.5 | 0.875 |
| average | 1.25 | 0.9375 |
| penetration | 85 | 75 |
| max range | 80 | 100 |
| reload max | 7.2 | 7.1 |
| reload min | 6.6 | 6.5 |
| scater angle | 9 | 7.5 |
| distance scatter max | 14 | 12 |
The 2 stats the pack howie beats the lef is aoe radius and penetration, the last of the two is rather useless if you're trying to kill infantry.
"Far to close range" covers every possible range 
Both units have their uses. However the Le ig's autofire gets better with vet (double fire per salvo), while the howie's remains the same. The 50% more damage at vet 5 (hard to reach) also increase it's infantry lethality since it means that the damage drop-off outwards is less or rather the damage done higher. Both units do not get increased range for their autofire at vet 3 despite the tool-tips suggesting as much. The increase is only for their abilities.
Except for the fact AoE is everything when it comes to killing infantry. Squad wipes are also stupid easy to pull off versus Axis compared to allies thanks to new bunching mechanics + 4 men squads. |
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Heavy tanks are already easily flanked by Mediums with out blitz, just remove that and it's fine. |
And IS2 can do same thing but even better so why I should pick up KV1 over IS2?
Remove B4 and you won't see KV1 again.
KV1 is best of all KVs? KV1 is excellent? (it was around 1941-1942).
Show me KV1 with 20-30 kills, with great impact on the game since hitting the fiel becasue I can show you KV2 or 8 with such many kills without a problem and with huge impact while it's hard to achieve for KV1
It has around at medium range 37% to bounce. It's not even close to Tiger vs bazooka or 57mm, not to mention King Tiger, Jadgtiger or Elephnat.
And once again, how Jumbo would improve USF late game AT option?
How it would be different from E8 or Bulldozer? Only thicker armor and different gun.
Except an IS2 doesn't come in at 8 CP, and costs 85 more fuel. The KV8 is good for killing buildings, but it's preformance is eh due to not killing infantry as fast as it used to while having weaker armor than a KV1. The KV2 is retardly expensive for a heavy tank that costs as much as a Tiger or IS2 while having 200 less health, it also cannot hit shit, and has an extremely awful ROF when not locked down.
The KV1 is a good all rounder that can make Panthers worry due to the Panthers lack of DPS.
The Jumbo would improve USF's late game in general because it could actually stand up to Axis tanks while not dying to a light breeze, and be more generalist than a E8 which is best VS armor or a Bulldozer which is just garbage.
If you want to add the Pershing that's fine, but the Jumbo and other options like the Callopie or Alligator are also interesting.
While it is true the best thing in Counterattack tactics is the B4, if the KV1 was a stock unit you would see it all the time because it's a tank with the excellent AI capabilities of the T34 while having much better health and armor. |
And how this would give any other late game option for USF?
KV1 = 800 health and chance to bounce enemy AT.
A Sherman Jumbo can preform as a good counter to enemy shrek spam by being able to tank the damage and deal it out in return, plus maybe give it optional HE/AP shells for increased performance?
The KV1 isn't a bad tank by any measure, especially for it's cost. |
Yes but you don't see the point.
For example, Calliope or the one with flamethrower. They are Shermans but they are different.
Right now we have only thicker armor or better gun. It's boring like hell.
For example, we have 3 KV tanks but they are all different.
Damage sponge, assault gun and flamethrower. All are different.
Sherman Jumbo would be just Sherman with thicker armor, that's all and we already have many Shermans that are not so different from each other.
And the KV1 sometimes is useful but if you erase B4 from that doctrine, Im telling you that you will never see KV1 again. Same would be for Jumbo.
But the KV1 is an excellent tank? Wrecks PIV's, bounces shreks and AT gun shots. Can tank damage from Tigers and Panthers well. When it vet's up it gets a super good ROF, and becomes quite maneuverable and fast for a heavy tank.
For it's price the KV1 preforms just fine, a Sherman Jumbo that works the same way would be great for US late game to soak up damage from enemy tanks while your Jacksons rip them apart. Maybe give the Jumbo a little bit extra health and armor.
EDIT: The KV1 is the best of all the KV series in the game some strange reason because the KV8 doesn't have as much armor and it's anti-infantry performance got nerfed, while the KV2 is stupid expensive for not doing very much at all.
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Pwerfer also got lower range then katy, yet it have 160hp.
Stuka is simply too durable, unless a tank is sitting on it, you can save it most of the time.
It also have vastly superior barrage to both of them for merely 15 more fuel.
And to the guy trying to say "its more expensive", you can reliably get it in 9th minute, have fun getting katy or pwerfer before 11-14min mark.
It's not to durable, it's a HT, it's as durable as the other HT's. the Werfer and Katyusha should be brought up to the Stuka's health, and acceleration.
The Stuka has double the acceleration of both the Werfer and Kat. |
Actually they(as well as IS-2) are fast enough to make sure that mediums will never flank them, unless they get a jump on their rear or use blitz in axis meds case.
I personally see nothing bad with heavies getting slowed down, as I've said multiple times, they need to have a meaningful disadvantage over meds.
All the heavies in the game have worse acceleration and top speed than mediums. This is already the case.
The Tiger nor is the KT that hard to kill for Soviets tanks to having a fairly large amount of options, the only real person hurting here is USF because their tanks are to fragile to last during a flank. |
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