Pershing in demand

The Jumbo could be a interesting late game call in, maybe price it the same as a KV1? They are essentially the same tank.

yep also my thoughts...
Something equal to the KV-1 would be fine.

Yes but you don't see the point.

For example, Calliope or the one with flamethrower. They are Shermans but they are different.
Right now we have only thicker armor or better gun. It's boring like hell.

For example, we have 3 KV tanks but they are all different.

Damage sponge, assault gun and flamethrower. All are different.

Sherman Jumbo would be just Sherman with thicker armor, that's all and we already have many Shermans that are not so different from each other.

And the KV1 sometimes is useful but if you erase B4 from that doctrine, Im telling you that you will never see KV1 again. Same would be for Jumbo.

But the KV1 is an excellent tank? Wrecks PIV's, bounces shreks and AT gun shots. Can tank damage from Tigers and Panthers well. When it vet's up it gets a super good ROF, and becomes quite maneuverable and fast for a heavy tank.

For it's price the KV1 preforms just fine, a Sherman Jumbo that works the same way would be great for US late game to soak up damage from enemy tanks while your Jacksons rip them apart. Maybe give the Jumbo a little bit extra health and armor.

EDIT: The KV1 is the best of all the KV series in the game some strange reason because the KV8 doesn't have as much armor and it's anti-infantry performance got nerfed, while the KV2 is stupid expensive for not doing very much at all.

yep also my thoughts...
Something equal to the KV-1 would be fine.

And how this would give any other late game option for USF?

And how this would give any other late game option for USF?

KV1 = 800 health and chance to bounce enemy AT.

A Sherman Jumbo can preform as a good counter to enemy shrek spam by being able to tank the damage and deal it out in return, plus maybe give it optional HE/AP shells for increased performance?

The KV1 isn't a bad tank by any measure, especially for it's cost.

But the KV1 is an excellent tank? Wrecks PIV's, bounces shreks and AT gun shots. Can tank damage from Tigers and Panthers well. When it vet's up it gets a super good ROF, and becomes quite maneuverable and fast for a heavy tank.

For it's price the KV1 preforms just fine, a Sherman Jumbo that works the same way would be great for US late game to soak up damage from enemy tanks while your Jacksons rip them apart. Maybe give the Jumbo a little bit extra health and armor.

EDIT: The KV1 is the best of all the KV series in the game some strange reason because the KV8 doesn't have as much armor and it's anti-infantry performance got nerfed, while the KV2 is stupid expensive for not doing very much at all.

And IS2 can do same thing but even better so why I should pick up KV1 over IS2?
Remove B4 and you won't see KV1 again.

KV1 is best of all KVs? KV1 is excellent? (it was around 1941-1942).

Show me KV1 with 20-30 kills, with great impact on the game since hitting the fiel becasue I can show you KV2 or 8 with such many kills without a problem and with huge impact while it's hard to achieve for KV1

KV1 = 800 health and chance to bounce enemy AT.

A Sherman Jumbo can preform as a good counter to enemy shrek spam by being able to tank the damage and deal it out in return, plus maybe give it optional HE/AP shells for increased performance?

The KV1 isn't a bad tank by any measure, especially for it's cost.

It has around at medium range 37% to bounce. It's not even close to Tiger vs bazooka or 57mm, not to mention King Tiger, Jadgtiger or Elephnat.

And once again, how Jumbo would improve USF late game AT option?
How it would be different from E8 or Bulldozer? Only thicker armor and different gun.

And IS2 can do same thing but even better so why I should pick up KV1 over IS2?
Remove B4 and you won't see KV1 again.

KV1 is best of all KVs? KV1 is excellent? (it was around 1941-1942).

Show me KV1 with 20-30 kills, with great impact on the game since hitting the fiel becasue I can show you KV2 or 8 with such many kills without a problem and with huge impact while it's hard to achieve for KV1





It has around at medium range 37% to bounce. It's not even close to Tiger vs bazooka or 57mm, not to mention King Tiger, Jadgtiger or Elephnat.

And once again, how Jumbo would improve USF late game AT option?
How it would be different from E8 or Bulldozer? Only thicker armor and different gun.

Except an IS2 doesn't come in at 8 CP, and costs 85 more fuel. The KV8 is good for killing buildings, but it's preformance is eh due to not killing infantry as fast as it used to while having weaker armor than a KV1. The KV2 is retardly expensive for a heavy tank that costs as much as a Tiger or IS2 while having 200 less health, it also cannot hit shit, and has an extremely awful ROF when not locked down.

The KV1 is a good all rounder that can make Panthers worry due to the Panthers lack of DPS.

The Jumbo would improve USF's late game in general because it could actually stand up to Axis tanks while not dying to a light breeze, and be more generalist than a E8 which is best VS armor or a Bulldozer which is just garbage.

If you want to add the Pershing that's fine, but the Jumbo and other options like the Callopie or Alligator are also interesting.

While it is true the best thing in Counterattack tactics is the B4, if the KV1 was a stock unit you would see it all the time because it's a tank with the excellent AI capabilities of the T34 while having much better health and armor.

Except an IS2 doesn't come in at 8 CP, and costs 85 more fuel. The KV8 is good for killing buildings, but it's preformance is eh due to not killing infantry as fast as it used to while having weaker armor than a KV1. The KV2 is retardly expensive for a heavy tank that costs as much as a Tiger or IS2 while having 200 less health, it also cannot hit shit, and has an extremely awful ROF when not locked down.

The KV1 is a good all rounder that can make Panthers worry due to the Panthers lack of DPS.

The Jumbo would improve USF's late game in general because it could actually stand up to Axis tanks while not dying to a light breeze, and be more generalist than a E8 which is best VS armor or a Bulldozer which is just garbage.

If you want to add the Pershing that's fine, but the Jumbo and other options like the Callopie or Alligator are also interesting.

While it is true the best thing in Counterattack tactics is the B4, if the KV1 was a stock unit you would see it all the time because it's a tank with the excellent AI capabilities of the T34 while having much better health and armor.

It may come at 8CP, same like KV8 but KV8 provide you great push power. KV1 cant do that. It's only advantage is armor which in fact it is still terrible. ~35% to bounce schreck? How many % Tiger/KT/Panther have to bounce bazooka, 57mm and even ZiS? And there will be usually 2 AT gun shooting at you while you may see 4-5 Schrecks shooting at KV1. In fact many times one volley is enough to push back KV1 unless you are RNGesus behind your backs but that's unlikely.

Quick example, how often to you see AT nades bouncing from Panther? For me it's something common, almost in every game.

How often you see KV1 bouncing pzfaust? In 1300h I saw it only 3 times.
Point is, KV1 may have amazing armor when compare to USF units but it's like chagning wooden stick to a brozne stick while you need steel.

Why Panther should be worry? It's KV1 which should be worry. 1 shot from panther, 1 volley from 3 schrecks and you already have to fall back.

Pershing is not about standing agasint Axis armor. It's about having something else than Jackson to deal damage. Every faction has 4-5 late game AT options. US Forces have only 1 in fact. That's the point we are talking here. Not damage sponge, but useful late-game AT unit.

As a stock unit I would choose KV1 over T34 really rare. It may have better armor but it's really slow. You can't penetrate anything what OKW has from the front, you have to flank. T34 is perfect for this. Quick attack and retreat. Jumo around the corner, wipe Pak40 and go back.

KV1 and T34 have advantages but T34 would be more useful most times and it still a way cheaper.

Pershing is not about standing agasint Axis armor. It's about having something else than Jackson to deal damage. Every faction has 4-5 late game AT options. US Forces have only 1 in fact. That's the point we are talking here. Not damage sponge, but useful late-game AT unit.

I agree, Jackson is the lone late AT option and that is it. In vCoh, we had the option of upgrading the "fun" on the Sherman but in Coh2, nope call in doctrinal Ez-8s.

It may come at 8CP, same like KV8 but KV8 provide you great push power. KV1 cant do that. It's only advantage is armor which in fact it is still terrible. ~35% to bounce schreck? How many % Tiger/KT/Panther have to bounce bazooka, 57mm and even ZiS? And there will be usually 2 AT gun shooting at you while you may see 4-5 Schrecks shooting at KV1. In fact many times one volley is enough to push back KV1 unless you are RNGesus behind your backs but that's unlikely.

Quick example, how often to you see AT nades bouncing from Panther? For me it's something common, almost in every game.

How often you see KV1 bouncing pzfaust? In 1300h I saw it only 3 times.
Point is, KV1 may have amazing armor when compare to USF units but it's like chagning wooden stick to a brozne stick while you need steel.

Why Panther should be worry? It's KV1 which should be worry. 1 shot from panther, 1 volley from 3 schrecks and you already have to fall back.

Pershing is not about standing agasint Axis armor. It's about having something else than Jackson to deal damage. Every faction has 4-5 late game AT options. US Forces have only 1 in fact. That's the point we are talking here. Not damage sponge, but useful late-game AT unit.

As a stock unit I would choose KV1 over T34 really rare. It may have better armor but it's really slow. You can't penetrate anything what OKW has from the front, you have to flank. T34 is perfect for this. Quick attack and retreat. Jumo around the corner, wipe Pak40 and go back.

KV1 and T34 have advantages but T34 would be more useful most times and it still a way cheaper.

I already have said that I think USF needs more AT options, but a damage sponge would go a long way towards making USF late game less hectic, and it's armor is by no measure terrible, it's got only 30 less frontal armor than a Tiger, while being faster.

The T34 is only 1 speed faster than the KV1, and it can't often bounce shots from enemy AT guns nor can it bounce shreks, or fausts, or anything else. It also doesn't have nearly as much health. The KV1 functions excellent for the amount you pay for it. The KV8 is utter shit for pushing because any disciplined player will just spread his units and DPS you down quickly due to the KV8's reduced armor.

The Panther should worry because it has crap DPS, 2 KV1's can easily ruin a Panthers day. And that's the KV1's power, it's cheap, effective, and in number's it can overwhelm the enemy due to it's high health and armor while still being quite mobile for a heavy tank.

On average the Pfaust only has a 55% chance to pen a KV1 at medium range, and a 51% chance at max. Which means it's not entirely uncommon for a KV1 to bounce a faust if your not a dumbo who reveals your rear armor to the enemy.

I agree, Jackson is the lone late AT option and that is it. In vCoh, we had the option of upgrading the "fun" on the Sherman but in Coh2, nope call in doctrinal Ez-8s.

Pmuch, USF needs more diverse AT options, but it does also need more durable tanks.

Tactical Reserve Company
Contain enemy attacks with well-equipped core infantry, then unleash powerful units from rear-line reserves. Discounted resource caches improve battlefield awareness while the M32 Sherman ARV can return knocked out vehicles to service. Counter enemy armor and exploit Allied breakthroughs with the newly developed M26 Pershing heavy tank.

IMO the name could be simply by just calling it Reserve Company, since there's nothing very tactical about the theme behind it (heavy tank plus resource discount).

Forward Outposts (0 CPs)
Fuel and munitions caches cost 150 manpower and provide additional sight range.
• Passive ability
• Does not increase cache HP

Considerably overpowered. The AA bulletins give only 5% discount, so only 190 instead of 200. Not only are you getting a HUGE discount relative to what bulletins would offer, but add increased sight range. The discount in cost alone is reason to balk at the idea.

Rear Echelon Reserves (4 CPs)
Deploy two squads of fresh Rear Echelon Troops to reinforce vulnerable points. Each squad is equipped with an M1919A6 Light Machine Gun and comes with a random amount of experience.
• Costs 380 manpower.
• Squads can have anywhere from zero to rank 2 veterancy. A rank 2 squad will come with all 5 members.
• Each squad carries a single LMG.

This is obviously a ripoff of Mobile Defense Doctrine's Ostruppen Reserves; Osttruppen are OK since they are rather substandard and used for numbers. RETs however have the benefit of building more things than Osttruppen, plus the LMG makes them a free doctrinal access to LMGs.

Extra Weapon Stockpiles (6 CPs)
Items from Weapon Racks cost 50% less munitions. Does not affect unlock costs for each rack.
• Passive ability

Ridiculously overpowered, you're asking for every USF bought to cost as much as a German grenade ability being used. On top of munitions caches costing less to produce. Nothing reserve about it, just call it Logistics Company (not joking, a commander idea focusing on economy would be interesting, though not as OP as this).

M32 Sherman ARV (9 CPs)
Deploy an M32 Sherman Armored Recovery Vehicle. This unarmed unit may recover US Forces vehicle hulks and return them to operation. Can be upgraded to reinforce nearby infantry.
• May purchase “Infantry Carrier” upgrade for 100 munitions, allowing nearby infantry to reinforce and allowing the M32 to carry a single squad (troops may not fire from the ARV).
• May repair vehicles.
• May recover vehicles from intact hulks only. Recovery takes 150% of the vehicle’s original build time. A recovered vehicle will have either an engine or main gun critical, and will have 10% of maximum HP.
• At rank 1, gain “Repair Critical” ability to remove any single vehicle critical in 3 seconds.
• At rank 2, gain increased speed and acceleration.
• At rank 3, gain Concealing Smoke ability (30 munitions).

Not too keen on a recovery unit either. Remember the discount on both caches and weapons? Now you're offering the idea to recover lost vehicles that were bought with less resources.

M26 Pershing (11 CPs)
An M26 Pershing is available for frontline deployment. Heavy armor and a 90mm main gun allows this unit to engage any enemy tank. Can fire white phosphorus rounds to clear garrisoned structures or scatter infantry.
• 600 MP, 190 fuel
• May mount .50 caliber MG for 70 munitions
• May launch smoke at target area with minimum range
• At rank 1, gain White Phosphorus round. For 50 munitions, this will fire one incendiary HE round that does area damage to infantry and burns their HP over time. Damages infantry in buildings. 15 second cooldown.
• At rank 2, gain increased speed and rate of fire
• At rank 3, gain increased accuracy and sight range

Pershing idea is nice, but the doctrine as a whole is not. We're talking less resources to build caches, less resources to get weapons, a vehicle that lets you regain lost vehicles while have a redundant repair ability, and more builder units to repair and build them all.

I actually think a better idea to reflect the theme to replace the cache idea, is to use something like Registered Artillery, which when activated on a select capture point will rain mortars on the area and kill enemy infantry attempting to capture the point. It's definitely a useful off-map ability to take care of pesky flanking units attempting a cut-off in a sector you can't move to respond to, and prevent an immediate loss. Another idea would be a sort of Overwatch Barrage ability that instantly suppresses enemy units, allowing your own men to deal with them but the barrage doesn't kill them outright, basically a copy of Fear Propaganda, but without the annoying auto-retreat.
Another idea is an intelligence ability similar to Soviet's Spy Network or OKW's Radio Silence or Signal Relay where a selected sector (or all friendly sectors that are in supply) will reveal it's Fog of War and allow you to track enemy movement.

If you want a truly Tactical Reserve sort of idea, I think M3 halftrack with Cav Riflemen would work much more wonders. Short-range infantry would perform well in close range, and halftrack allows you to reinforce without relying in retarded Ambulance and HQ. Very similar to your RET Reserve idea but without the quirkiness involved with two tier0s with LMGs plus vet.
Or even a Riflemen Reserves where the Riflemen are instead armed with M1A1 Carbines, slightly weaker than Garands but more useful in mid-close range action. Or hell just copy the Veteran Riflemen from the Rifleman Company.

Perhaps a simpler solution to the ARV idea is just allow RETs to salvage like OKW units. Maybe call it Quick Salvage or something and it works faster but also gives less resources each time.

All the Allied fans keep asking Relic for a Pershing commander so here's what one might look like. I think the key is to balance a commander so it is not 100% reliant on its call-in to be effective, while not giving it too many early CP abilities as to make it overpowered relative to other commanders.

Thats funny, because your Community-Commander is potentially the most OP-commander I've seen yet. 50% less ammo cost for M1919 + ammo/fuel caches for 150MP (with increased sight range)... and if that isn't enough two Echelon squads with LMG's for 380 MP, which would be their regular cost (x2 160MP. Those abilities combined completely break the game.

...and if you can't win the already OP USF early game with those abilities you call in a pershing for 190 fuel (haha) to finish the job and easily destroy most tanks and infantry with phosphor bombs, just in case it hasn't been already annihilated by ridiculous M1919 spam. If the tank somehow gets destroyed, you simply bring it back to life with the magic repair vehicle... while the destroyed hull is protected by another Pershing and a horde of M1919 squads and Echelons with double Zooks.

You are funny.

stop suggesting late game commanders to compensate for their weaker lategame. It shouldnt be like that.

One thing i like about USF is the fact that i find every single core unit to be effective at what it does. They arent that commander reliant as Soviets. OKW also doesnt really need a commander, and neither does Ostheer (in theory, yes i know tiger meta).

stop suggesting late game commanders to compensate for their weaker lategame. It shouldnt be like that.

One thing i like about USF is the fact that i find every single core unit to be effective at what it does. They arent that commander reliant as Soviets. OKW also doesnt really need a commander, and neither does Ostheer (in theory, yes i know tiger meta).

First off Pack Howitzer and stuart say hi as far as core units go. Secondly I'd argue USF is commander dependant its just that their commander options arent nearly as good as Soviets so its not as obvious.

Airborne is the best USF commander as air dropped AT guns means you dont have to invest in the craptain tier and the P47 is a saving grace against heavy armor, and paratroopers scale much better late game than riflemen

Rifle Company for Easy Eights helps a bit vs late game armor

Infantry commander M1919s help riflemen scale better into lategame

but yeah I agree we need to fix core lategame instead of pushing USF into being like the soviets.

First off Pack Howitzer and stuart say hi as far as core units go. Secondly I'd argue USF is commander dependant its just that their commander options arent nearly as good as Soviets so its not as obvious.

Airborne is the best USF commander as air dropped AT guns means you dont have to invest in the craptain tier and the P47 is a saving grace against heavy armor, and paratroopers scale much better late game than riflemen

Rifle Company for Easy Eights helps a bit vs late game armor

Infantry commander M1919s help riflemen scale better into lategame

but yeah I agree we need to fix core lategame instead of pushing USF into being like the soviets.

i build the pack howie every time i can, because i absolutely love that thing. And stuart might be a bit too expensive but i like it as a mobile light tank capable of taking on flak ht's and puma's thanks to shell shock.

Pack Howitzer is inefficient compared to a standard mortar. There are many things wrong with it.

Stuart vet abilities... And shell shock is meh, targetting and shooting everything.

Technically, USF is commander reliant on alternative AT options. Bazookas are a no go, the AT gun meets enemy Blitz, the AT rifle grenade i keep on having issues with (compared to the soviet hand grenade where the guy chucks on the spot).

Jackson is the tank for killing all armor, and it seems that you cant spend fuel on anything else to kill tanks.

Next to riflemen being your only infantry.

Pack Howitzer is inefficient compared to a standard mortar. There are many things wrong with it.

Stuart vet abilities... And shell shock is meh, targetting and shooting everything.

Technically, USF is commander reliant on alternative AT options. Bazookas are a no go, the AT gun meets enemy Blitz, the AT rifle grenade i keep on having issues with (compared to the soviet hand grenade where the guy chucks on the spot).

Jackson is the tank for killing all armor, and it seems that you cant spend fuel on anything else to kill tanks.

Next to riflemen being your only infantry.

Pack howie...how come i never get 60+ kills with a standard mortar? Pack howie is a beast, especially the barrage at vet 2 is such a good blob counter.

Stuart...man, this has to be one of the dumbest statements ive read in a good while. If you dont have a good argument, dont argue against it.