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Thread: Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments30 Aug 2019, 19:40 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 15:29 PMSkysTheLimit Lowering their price just makes them more easily spammed. Of all the things to do to the unit that's easily the worst idea They can upgrade to 2x Shrecks, there should be some serious caution about making that unit cheaper They cost 270 in the just released patch. I wish I could buy them when playing USF because a 5-man PF squad with 2 Shrecks is 270/100 compared to 280/100 for a 5-man Riflemen squad with inferior bazookas. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion30 Aug 2019, 18:14 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 17:39 PMChocoboknight88 Can we please not ignore the fact that the example being talked about was not one Churchill vs 4 Stugs but rather THREE Churchills vs 4 Stugs? Makes a hell of a difference to the balance discussion here. Stugs are not going to be effective when they are driving backwards while lowering accuracy, trying to get away from three tanks. Also, I can't support a damage nerf to 120 since it will impacts way too many things. Damage vs Emplacements, Abandoned Weapons, Emplacements, AoE vs Infantry, Light Vehicles... List goes on! People are mainly complaining about their Panthers or other High Tier units not detering them enough. Nerfing penetration will put the nerf where it is needed without hitting the unit with a sledgehammer. It was actually a Stupa and four Stugs versus three Churchills, a 6 lbr, and some engineers. The Stug's armor is only around 140 so it made the Churchills look good. Their penetration is 135 according to CHO2DB, which gives them almost guaranteed pen against a Stug and about a 50% chance to penetrate a Panther. It is similar to other allied tanks like Cromwells, Shermans, etc. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion30 Aug 2019, 17:49 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 15:53 PMDangerous-Cloth I meant the last fight specifically, where 4 stugs got completely rekt by 3 churchills. As for interesting group of posters. Do you REALLY wish to argue that the churchill is balanced in its current or even patched form? 1400 health, able to throw grenades, good armor and not limited by number? If you do, then I fear you fall under the group that seems to miss any type of reasonable judgement. Where exactly do I suggest nerfing panther damage or its health? 320 hp for the Panther is huge, compared to a churchill losing 2 shots to kill when it has 1400!!!!! health. I even suggested limited panthers to 2 per player in most posts. So you either didn't watch it or are lying about it. Sanders linked the video. The Stugs did kill one of the Churchills. Also, as Sanders pointed out, you can't reasonably extrapolate much from this fight. It's difficult to use the Stug's range advantage on a small map like Crossroads compared to Red Ball. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion30 Aug 2019, 14:58 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 17:49 PMDangerous-Cloth There was nothing Price could have done against them damage wise. 4 stugs could not kill one churchill. Bouncing like mad and not doing enough damage combined. If he went panther(s), the UKF player would simply go 2 churchills with a 6 pounder. Panther doesn't have enough dps to kill even one churchill. Pak 40s also have a huge problem with killing the churchill, especially 3 coming for you, as they can roll up and kill it easily and have health to spare. 3 churchills supported by sappers, tommies, is nearly unbeatable. There was nothing and I repeat nothing Price could have done. Mines allright, but it would only engine damage the Churchill, there are still 3 of them with a million health. But we must be mindful not to nerf it to uselessness. A slight health reduction of 2 shots less needed to kill it would be in order, that is it. Nothing more. Except that the Stugs did kill one of the Churchills and might have been able to get a second one had they focused on the original Churchill when it was brought back into the fight. It's interesting that a certain group of posters think that the game is completely broken if 360 fuel worth of Axis armor doesn't beat 480 fuel of allied armor. Please nerf. You could make the same video with four M10's and three Panthers. Should the Panther have its damage reduced to 120 or lose 320HP like you suggest above? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion30 Aug 2019, 05:28 AM Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 00:18 AMSkysTheLimit Why are you saying "just 4" like that's a tiny difference? Its not a massive difference, but there probably shouldn't be Pushing the pop cap up to 19 still feels like an overnerf. It isn't the end of the world though, and the patch as a whole seems pretty good. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion29 Aug 2019, 17:59 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 17:25 PMSander93 Who said that decision was based on one game and a lot of complaining by 2-3 posters? You literally quoted me saying that that one match did not prove anything. I think arguably the cheer amount of hitpoints that the Churchill has, and the amount of counters it forces, makes it worth 19 popcap. I think it's comparable to four popcap less than a King Tiger. Popcap is not a universal measure anyway, it can be tailor made to fit certain units within certain armies. I should have been more specific. Yes, I did see the part where you said that you didn't put too much stock in the one game but that one game was a large part of the reason why so many posts have been put up on this thread. I don't play UKF a lot, but when I do, I usually get 1-2 Churchills. That extra pop cap is going to make a difference and will result in one less section or engineer squad. It's a lot bigger nerf than some people are thinking. When the Panther's pop cap was increased, it made a noticeable difference in the number of them that I could use and still have a good unit composition. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: UKF September patch discussion29 Aug 2019, 16:52 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 13:22 PMSander93 One match in which the Ostheer player did not produce the adequate counters (no snares or Tellers to slow them down, nothing to spot for the StuGs to use their range advantage, not getting at least one Panther to tank the damage for the StuGs, not using Pak 40s for their stun rounds) doesn't really prove anything. That said, it will very likely receive a very minor price increase and one additional popcap (up to 19) for the final patch to better match its "performance" (mostly having 1400 hitpoints and decent armor). I personally think Churchills are only a problem when 2-3 of them are deployed simultaneously. Instead of Churchills being used tactically as a damage sponge for other units, at the moment they are mostly just being spammed on masse to overwelm the enemy with their sheer number of hitpoints alone, so hopefully the higher popcap will make it very hard to build 3 of them and still have anything of an army left around them. Without support, they should be easier to counter. So based on one game and a lot of complaining by 2-3 posters, the balance team is going to push the standard Churchill's pop-cap to more than a Panther and just four less than a KT? Do you really think the Churchill is comparable to a KT? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: USF 240mm29 Aug 2019, 00:50 AM Jump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 23:45 PMMazianni Ive seen it used by better players than I to good effect in 1v1s, since the shells can make short work of armor with a lucky hit, but it all comes down to RNGesus. Personally I don't think it should be changed much though; risk is too high it'd somehow get nerfed overall in the process of making it more 'consistent', and its an expensive enough ability that functions more as a high stakes dice roll than a dedicated damage dealer. It happens once in awhile - even I had it work once back when OKW sim city was strong. I picked armor company early for some stupid reason and didn't have a counter to LEIG's/Schwerer. I was down something like 480 to 19 when I hit the Schwerer. One shell helped finish it and another hit a P4 that was retreating and finished it. I ended up winning. However, few people stack their trucks like that now and most of the time it just works as a very expensive area of denial tool. I tried it in a comp-stomp today. It has around 8-9 shells and they are about 7 seconds apart. I'd gladly give up a couple for having one hit at the center. Either that or consider lowering the price as the long wait for the first shell pretty much guarantees that anything mobile will not be caught in the circle when the first shell hits. Spending 250 munis for a 1 minute area denial doesn't seem like a good deal. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: USF 240mm28 Aug 2019, 19:21 PM Jump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 18:43 PMsomeonewithideas It does but has less instagibbing and a lot more RNG, plus big spacing between shots fired. The time delay means this ability rarely hits any units. I've tried it against arty a couple of times and the best result was decrewing the weapon once. I've had it used against me several times. If I only have a couple of units in the circle I sometimes just ignore it if I need a territory in the circle because the likelihood that it hits anything is really small if you just have a few units. It is good against OKW if they do their version of Sim City and stack all their trucks in a small area. I haven't played any 1v1's recently but the Armor Doctrine as a whole isn't very good in 3's or 4's. There usually isn't a lot of medium or light armor by the time the M10 hits the field and it is terrible against late game armor. Assault engineers are okay against Sturms but, like Sturms, they don't scale well into late game. It would be a lot better if they made even just one shell hit where intended, even if they took out several shells. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Poll: Raketenwerfer Change28 Aug 2019, 15:24 PM Jump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 11:40 AMSander93 Gunshields do protect against explosives (grenades) under certain circumstances (by applying the -50% damage reduction from green cover), which seemingly mostly has to do with the angle the grenade is fired/thrown from. Presumably this also applies to tank shell AOE (but I haven't tested it). Tests with grenades: https://www.coh2.org/topic/95402/okw-september-patch-discussion/post/768143 On top of that another issue with the lack of a gunshield is (I think) that the entire Raketen crew usually bunches up when the gun is around environmental cover (due to squad AI trying to move all the models into cover I guess) while regular ATG crews ignore environmental cover because they technically have their own (green) cover, and their 3rd and 4th spare models usually keep much better spacing. Raketens seem to be much more prone to one shot wipes (3-4 crew getting killed in one shot) than regular AT guns because of this. It doesn't seem like it is getting any reduction for hits that land behind it. Some tanks like Tigers decrew USF 57mm's really quickly. The same thing would probably happen with a PAK40 and a Pershing but I haven't seen it since I mostly play 3's & 4's and few people use Pershings in those games. In: Lobby