Yes.
Well let's hope that Relic don't use your suggestion for data collection then. Afterall, given your previous scale, you'd be ignoring 99% of the CoH 2 player base.
That's not a recipe for good business practise. Might I also add, all those players you'd be fine with ignoring, also paid for the game.
If they are suffering with balance problems, because their skill level doesn't allow them to play a particular faction as well as another, that is a balance issue, whether you like it or not. |
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You didn't answer my question.
I'll ask it again. This is not in regard to AT only, but data spread out across the entire player base. The entire player base is equal in it's requirements for balance. Why? Because they all paid for the game.
A simple yes/no will suffice.
"So, if for example, the top 5 teams in 4v4 for both factions showed a similar set of results or 'balance', yet the bottom 6000 players showed a swing of 30% or more to a particular faction, that would be fine with you?"
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If you read any of this thread or the previous threads ... [snip]
So, if for example, the top 5 teams in 4v4 for both factions showed a similar set of results or 'balance', yet the bottom 6000 players showed a swing of 30% or more to a particular faction, that would be fine with you?
Is that what you're saying?
Because that isn't true balance. That is balance within a skill ceiling (so not balance at all).
True balance would be equal data results across all game modes, and all players. An ideal that cannot be achieved.
You cannot, however, claim true balance by looking at the top players only. That is a fallacy perpetuated by the CoH elitist community since forever. |
He can't, only Relic can. I'm pointing out that these stats in their current state are a poor metric for people to start discussing balance around because of the multiple flaws.
Unfortunately, we don't have that data yet. Why don't you ask your buddies at Relic to pass it over? It's only data right? It couldn't possibly harm them in any way. Well, unless the data suggests things are skewed in a very clear direction.
DUSTY Stream June 2015:
DUSTY: "Let's play Axis, I'm fed up of losing today"
LEMON: "OK" |
I said AT ONLY, as in AT vs AT. A top 10 allies team vs a top 100 axis team reflects balance better than this current Stat of two teams of some mix of random/at/partially top 200.
And how do you propose someone differentiates those games, when he only has access to the data provided by this site? AFAIK you cannot separate AT vs AT only... |
This is it.
The only Stat we should care about for team games is top 200 vs 200 AT ONLY. Anything else is open to many more factors than a balanced AT match.
So AT teams don't play random's, is that it?
If they do, the data is still skewed. The only way to have accurate results, would be to combine both sets of data...
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Axis have a few more players in large team games. At times when the amount of people searching is low, you will end up having imbalanced teams - ELO (rank) wise. Meaning MM itself can't work with a low player count, and causes biased games.
Goes both ways of course, but...
...some top players on Axis 3v3 / 4v4 will face way lower ranked players more often, than the other way around.
That is actually false. As there are more Axis players in 3v3 and 4v4 searching at any one time, the way the matchmaking works, the higher ranked Allied players would actually play lower ranked Axis players more often, because of cue waiting. But it would be minimal, as it's usually around 60/40 in favour of axis.
Which makes those stats even more peculiar. |
Not a balance mismatch per se, just bad match making most of the time.
So top 200 2v2/3v3/4v4 random Allies, just have bad luck, and get a harder match more than the Axis random's?
Is that what you're saying?
Perceived balance is the bigger issue in large team games, than the actual one.
Not sure what you're saying here either. Large team games don't count as the actual game now?
More large team games are played than 1v1 and 2v2 games combined. |
Random Axis beat Random Allies -
Right, so therefore we have a balance mismatch, regardless of any AT influence.
We would have to hope that AT>Random most of the time. I guess we'll see when the stats come out. |
This is the problem with using random data for team game modes.
Random Axis 2v2/3v3/4v4, are just as random as Random Allies 2v2/3v3/4v4.
Random axis teams seem to cope a lot better, given the data, than random allies do, should they meet an AT team.
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