Okay, okay: Next on the (german) to do list: Jagdpanther - current Panther characteristics + Elefant gun. Have fun with that balanced game. I can only guess how big the uproar would be. 
Asking for a balanced and legitimate unit as the Su 100 to help countering the JT,Ferdi, KT. Germoni needs another balance breaker to continue the trend.
Logic™ be gone  |
Funny, that you refer to German tanks exclusively for that while IS-2s and ISU-152 suffered from horrible reload times, poor ergonomics and carrying only half the rounds of a normal tank etc. In the case of the IS-2 you also have to bring the gun to the standard position after every shot to reload and then adjust on target again.
I did read it and I was referring to the AT capabilities. You are the one misreading. It is still way better than any other super tank. Tanks don´t fight in a vacuum, it annihilates infantry and offers good AT. Last time I played versus it, it decimated Tigers without ever being reached... there is this stuff called support.
Am I seriously facing people here wanting an ISU buff?
And german heavy tanks should have their engines breaking down and the panthers suspension should breaking down randomly, yeah that would totally make the game fun if we added all of that as-well.
Imo the ISU is fine, as an assault gun, but what people want is and dedicated tank hunter as the Su-100.
Any super long range unit is a cancer to gameplay. It´s annoying. What I see here is lazy Soviet players wanting a unit they can park, wipe German tanks with and if every caught drive away with the mobility of a medium tank.
Then why did they add the Jagdtiger then? Its as you said cancer to gameplay, and not needed. Since it got released the Su-100 is 100% viable.
Calling Sovjet players lazy is just sad to see. Im not the one that can park a Jagdtiger anywhere on the map and let it kill any armour they throw at it while I support/scout for it. |
Personally, I was all for an SU-152 that fires more like a Sturmtiger Lite (maybe a 25-30 second reload), but with substantially better performance vs tanks and an AoE like the on field 152mm. Long range, faster firing, but less devastating. Let it do a guaranteed light engine damage instead of the sturm's obscene chance of immobilized and overheating all at once. Let the dang thing have some punch, like it honestly had. If it's good enough for OKW, surely soviets are allowed a nerfed version? (InB4 axis 'no asymmetrical balance')
Personally I would love to see a dedicated AT tank instead of the howitzers as the SU/ISU 122/152. For me a Su 100 would be a great introduction, but I wouldnt mind a Su 152 as you described above :3
But yes the Brits, I want them get in to the game as-well! It will be good fun like back in CoH1! |
He´s actually right. The T-34/85 devastates infantry, while the Panther is more of a special purpose tank. If you see a Panther finishing full health squads with one to two shots, you would have a point. Arguably the Panther is a heavy tank, being in the weight range of the IS-2 with 45 tons.
"Underperforming" ISU-152s... now that´s what I call "toplel". You are aware that it handles any tank easily and only struggles versus Elefant and Jagdtiger (again, specialized vehicles which suck versus infantry).
It looks more like Soviet players want to totally own German armor with their own armor. Most Soviet players just can´t handle the fact Germans get better tanks. Guess what? They did...
The T-34-85 is semi decent against infantry, but lacks its capability to pen the Panther from the front with its BR-365P shell, that were in common service with these tanks. I would take the Panther over the T-34-85 10/10 times, and guess what the T-34-85 is a doctrinal tank, so your screwed anyway if you go for it, compared with a Panther that is not commander bound.
If you read what I said earlier I specified that the ISU 152 is currently underperforming in terms of AT capabilities, not against infantry.
"Most Soviet players just can´t handle the fact Germans get better tanks. Guess what? They did..."
Looks like you are just un-aware that the Sovjets actually had tanks that could cope with Axis tanks as the Tiger, Panther, KT. They weren't invincible as you may think they were, but currently in-game the allied factions lack the AT units to counter the Heavy/Super heavy tanks that got added with the OKW. It is only fair that the Soviets get their hard counter to them, and they were they Su-100 and the ISU/Su-122(P)
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I already said it: THe combination of 70 range and the speed and maneuverability of a medium tank chassis would lead to an untouchable vehicle. Elefant and ISU aswell as the JT are slow as hell, which justifies their range.
Another super range unit would suck, I think everybody should have recognized that by now. It´s just lazy. Park the unit and destroy stuff. Some people just need to accept the asymmetrical game design and balance. Germans get better non-doctrinal tanks, so what? Russians get cheap mines, the (imo) best medium tank (T-34/85) or another game-breaking super-unit (ISU).
So by your Logic it is fair That your opponents are forced to play with worse units, while you can spam the cream of the crop axis armour. Calling the T-34-85 the best medium in-game, toplel, Panther with it's current adamantium armour feast on their puny Souls.
The Su-100 is again 100% legitimate because of the OKW super heavy tanks. The current underperforming ISU (AT aspect) cant cope with the all mighty Jagdtiger (which can shoot through shotblockers...), and the Su-85 is at not a match for anything Else than a Pz.4.
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Which would be totally overpowered. For the same reason I´m glad no Jagdpanther is in the game. Imagine 70 range with medium tank mobility... untouchable. As long as those don´t have the same range as regular tanks, I don´t see any hope with that.
Why will an Su 100 be OP, the axis has the JT, KT and Ferdi, while the sovjets are stuck with the poor Su-85 and call in mayhems. Su-100 is just as justified as a KT, Panther and the super heavy call in TDs.
It is fair and sqaure that they get access to That and elite non doctrinal infantry. In my opinion, the whole sovjet faction needs a major redesign. |
For the Panther that would be point blank range to go through the frontal armor - if at all.
Who both couldn´t be defeated frontally by it. And there were like 90 Ferdinands/Elefants... pretty much no reson to develop a vehicle to counter a tank this rare. It was meant to be a counter versus Panthers and such as those proofed impervious on all but the closest ranges to the available 85mms.
Lel it could defeat both of those tanks frontally if they were not properly angled,and the Su 100 were more common than the Su-85 during the war, as they stopped producing it when they could fit its gun on the T-34-85.
Su 100 with the BR-412D APCR shell pen:
100m 220mm
500m 200mm
1000m 180mm
1500m 160mm
2000m 140mm
Also the T-34-85 with the BR-365P shell could pen the Panther from the front:
100m 190mm
500m 140mm
1000m 100mm
1500m 82mm
2000m 64mm
Tho as many has stated, the pen figures are kinda "useless" when it comes down to this, it all depends on the situation and on what angle they are firing at each other.
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The only ridiculos thing with this is That it can shoot through walls and shot blockers, other than That it's fine. Still boring with all the super heavies in-game  |
Why would it? Panthers could fire back and destroy it, doubtful with T-34s versus a JT. And why would a 100mm be allowed to do super damage while 75mm/L70 wouldn´t be?
Thing is: Its role is redundant if you think about it. Su-85s couldn´t go through heavier armor, yet they do ingame. Why a Su-100 then? Fix the units that are ingame. The biggest sin imo is that the T-34/85 isn´t available outside a doctrine, while it really should be the standard spam tank.
The gun of the Su-85 and T-35-85 could pen the Tiger and the Panther (depending on angle) from the front. Su-100 were developed as a counter for the King Tiger, and Ferdi's.
But the current sovjet shells are heavily underperforming against armour, most notable the D-25T 122mm and the ML-20. |
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If I'm not mistaken the Tiger's 88 mm KwK 36 L/56 gun couldn't penetrate the Jumbos frontal armour (178 mm @ 30 degrees). Would have been fun to see it in-game as an Sherman who won't go full BBQ after a couple of hits.
For extra lols add the Pershing with armour upgrade and APCR ammo, yes please. |
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