«Comments do not applied to 1vs1 or 2vs2» maps
Our main concern is about 3vs3 and 4vs4 on the largest maps.(the one with a lot of strategic points)
The more strategic points the largest the Axis advantage.
This Axis advantage reflected mostly of the time by the huge majority of players wanting to play Axis.
Solution : On the largest 6-8 maps remove 1 fuel production from all point. (It won't have any effect of the 1vs1 or 2v2 match.)
Why:
Game always finish the same way: Axis stand off with their supported AA-bases, then the heavy tanks supported with some shreks will kill everything, 1 shot all at-guns and kill all allied at-tanks like they were not there.
The american faction is fine in the beginning but is powerless in the end game.
Jackson at_tanks dies always from 1 panzershreks squad as their mg cover will be obliterated by the tigers.
Russian tanks (Su-85) who could do something are not enough mobile to go help their friends on those large maps.
Only an all Russian team has some chance of winning and that's sad. (Even skilled players)
It's not a rant, but the game fun factor is in danger. If all players go Axis then there is no game played anymore. Those who don't understand that fact just try to play Allied on the largest maps and you will agree if you are honest.
«Tanks-you» in advance
+! Great point! I totally agree! 4v4 is quite troubling. Game is fun at the beginning and midgame and it seems fairly balanced. However, if you don't end it by midgame then Axis seem to have a massive advantage. Only if you amass a ton of tanks or if your enemy is strictly building infantry will you have a chance to defeat Axis at the end of midgame. |
tried this strategy in a 4v4 yesterday. It actually worked surprisingly well for the early and midgame! but after that, the enemy made a tiger and i slowly lost the game |
I not against asymmetrical balance related to the stage of the game each faction is best.
The issue here is that CoH2's upkeep system favours comebacks even if one has lost more than 80% of the map, so factions which are better at early game are at disadvantage because the game is more kind with early game mistakes.
vCoH was much more punishing, once you lost your map control it was truly hard to do a comeback.
Great point!!! Although i am against a huge snowball effect, games should be won by tactical skill and strategy not by "oh it is past 30 minutes, i should give up hope now because my faction sucks at this point in the game!". I felt that vCOH allowed u to make some mistakes and still gave u a chance to get back into the game. However, in COH2, it seems like a player could get wiped destroyed over and over (losing squads, constantly losing territory), and still have units to come back and wreck face.
I broadly agree with OP. I hate that they have (intentionally?) made part of the asymmetrical balance related to the stage of the game you're in. It makes the game impossible to balance equally in different game modes, since the modes (and to some extent the maps) dictate how late games will go on average. While Relic probably doesn't care much about 3v3 and 4v4 balance, I think they do care about 2v2, and I certainly do. Team games almost always go late, it's much rarer for a game to "end" in ten minutes or less. So in team games, the factions that are stronger later get an advantage, and in 1v1, where you don't have an ally to "average out" your successes and losses, the games are much shorter, and factions that are strong early have an advantage.
It's going to be very tricky trying to juggle the blaance to make OKW and Wehr "equally good" as the Allies at all stages of the game. I am a 2v2 gamer primarily and main USF. Even though I spend most of my time in 2v2 with a more or less equally skilled partner, my 1v1 rank is enormously higher than my 2v2 rank, it's like 300 for 1v1 and 2500 for 2v2 AT. These ranks are not directly comparable I understand, although it feels so much harder in team games - double USF team games I might add, where the weaknesses in lategame get magnified.
Half the problem is that when we win games in 2v2, it has rarely been a "good fight" - we got some early squadwipes, sometimes because we got lucky and sometimes because of great positioning on our part, but the small victories cascade and we've wiped half their army in < 8 minutes. They drop, we win, GG. But these victories are only a fraciton of how satisfying it is when you win a 30 minute or 40 minute match that features several back and forths. Those are often frustrating to lose, because you're not losing because you're less skilled (well sometimes you do), it's because at that stage of the game your faction is simply weaksauce and all these supersoldiers are appearing on the field backed up by supertanks and you can't keep up, gradually watching your victories turn to nothing and your forces dwindle until they kill you on VPs.
Wins are often unsatisfying, and losses are often incredibly frustrating. That's bad design, conceptually!
Really well put man. Totally captured what i wanted to say about the issue
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Tiger Ace? King Tiger? IS2? ISU?
i think he meant that it is impossible to make a comeback if you don't have any units on the field (due to reduced pop cap/resources) |
I agree completely.
R
And yet the irony we see is masses of Sov posting for Cons/Penal/Guard/Shock improvement, when infact it is Ost that is shoehorned into relying on Gren LMGs to deal with those options.
It is Ost that actually has no option.
That is the actual issue all this endless Sov sarcasm is intended and deliberate for hiding, derailing and stonewalling discussion on.
Buff any of the above Sov infantry options, and what is the result? An even harder reliance, even more limited meta, for Ost, forcing it into even more LMG Gren builds.
i think a soviet player could say the same thing that their own faction is the core issue. I don't play ostheer so i'll take your word that there is something wrong with that faction. Since balance can affect the relationship between multiple factions, it is important to look at the unintended consequences between factions when buffing and nerfing units |
Everything that is not conscript spam is cheese. Unless you spam too many conscripts; then there is only cheese.
all t1 units "omg this soviet cheese!! nerf!!!"
Maxim: "too much maxim spam!! nerf this bullshit!"
ZiS: "wtf this at counter my armor!! soviet is OP a-move faction! noob!"
Guards: "Soviet noob. Why you use guards? You spammer!!"
conscripts: WTF SPAM CONSCRIPTS!?!? OMG TOO MUCH MAP CONTROL!! THIS IS BULLCRAP!!!"
Shock troops: "omfg shocks op. they kill my blob of LMG grens so fast! NERF THIS CRAP!! why you spam shocks soviet noob?"
T34-76/85: "wow so many t34s. you spam too much"
ISU: "WTRF THIS SHIT WIPES MY SQUADS LEFT AND RIGHT!!!! IT IS ALSO GOOD AGAINST TANKS!?!?!? WTF NERF THIS POOP TO THE GROUND!!!!"
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I am a mixed bag about this. Faction strength at different points in the game give that faction a unique flavor. However it feels very gimmicky and unbalanced at points. As a Soviet player, forcing a stalemate midgame is already a death sentence; you always have to attack attack attack! It is frustrating to see probable victories slip away even if you are constantly destroying your opponent. If AXIS (especially OKW) hold on long enough, then victory as a Soviet player becomes extremely difficult.
The difficult part is, this might be an intended design choice by Relic. Perhaps smoothing out the extremes of all factions will make it more balanced and less frustrating? Maybe all faction's late game should be potent; the early game and mid could be more fluctuating |
Damn that really sucks. I feel you man |
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people complain about Soviet spam such as sniper spam, maxim spam, t34 spam etc, and yet we have a lot of players ( at least from what I have seen) spam LMG grens, OKW blobs, Schreck spam. rifle spam etc. Basically anything Soviet does is considered spam or cheese unless its conscript spam; conscript spam is just weak unless you have great micro and wareness |