Profile of OrangePest

I think the thing people are not taking into account for "epic" scale games (because in terms army size coh3 is far far more massive), it's the *VP* system that makes it so you don't get into those battles that often, i think i can count on one hand the amount of super late games I've had because of it, however vs caosak when we played on 600 vps, the 3rd game ended up being a one hour slug match, which was also the first true epic scale match I've had.

Just some food for thought.

Hilarious, i went back to coh1 like a year ago, and after like 50 hours i was beating people with hours in the thousands, it's not that skillful, the micro is mainly centered around abusing bugs, and the capping system sucks and promotes blobbing.

What it does do well is something coh2 does not do at all, teching strategy, and doctrinal choices. But coh3 blows it out of the water in that aspect.

It's a solid enough game but it's not the holy grail of competitiveness the coh1 players think it is. There's a reason why they didn't make the competitive cut for ML this year.

Maybe at the highest competitive level, yes, players tend to default to the strongest available options. But again, it's like that in any game, especially one that's been around as long as Company of Heroes 2. I wasn't talking about whether or not someone could win whatever tournament with whatever strategy they wanted, I don't watch those games and I frankly don't care about what they do. I was talking about whether or not I can start an automatched 1v1 and use a diverse array of strategies with a reasonable chance of victory. This is, indeed, possible.

As for Company of Heroes 3, I'm sure that down the line it would get to the same place Company of Heroes 2 is currently at in regards to the meta. Nobody fucking plays it though and we'll probably never know once Relic shuts down!

Im incredibly confused then, because I've seen this argument time and time again, but objectively. coh3 has FAR more variety and options, because if we go by the logic of competitive skill level and "anyone" being able to do a strategy, then your options of whats actually usable is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more than enough.

Just a look at Wehr

Pio,ketten,MG,Luftpio,Gren,Mortar and sniper

All either 0 CP, or in the first buildings you get, Compare that to wehr

MG,Gren,Mortar,pio,Sniper

And then the commander options of Ostruppen and Assgrens (Which are paid DLC).

Your build variety is objectively less, and then you look at tech, it's linear, and you are stuck with basically two real options, Halftrack or 222

Meanwhile you look at wehr in coh3

2A, 222,Flak,Jaeger squad (all viable and strong units btw), that goes into marder and wirble (also strong units, though marder got nerfed into obscurity, but since we arent taking competitive levels into account then it doesn't matter)

2B Pak,Pgren,Halftrack Same thing as above, all viable and strong, that leads into stug and nebelwerfer.


Like, just look at that variety! There are so many options its overwhelming, and when you add in transfer orders you can literally change your builds on the fly, having a massive sort of variety comparetivly to coh2s wehr, where you are ALWAYS locked into triple gren, ostruppen or assgrens, an especially huge issue with USF which is why you never see elites see play.


Honestly im just trying to see where the argument of coh3 lacking variety comes from, it's just... fake? not a thing? Like how do you even reach that conclusion?

I would even go as far as to say, one of cohs WORST qualities, is lack of variety, the manpower economy punishes large armies, which with late elites makes some armies (USF,OKW arguably brits) incredibly limited by their infantry builds, USF famously basically can't build elites because by the time you've gotten 2 cps, your rifles will have you bleed so dry there's literally no point.

"8-rad call in for mechanized is made into a combat group, given an pio, raising the cost to 420 MP, this should slow down the spam, as well increasing the pop requirements, giving them a non oppressive unit to go alongside it should ensure that spam is minimized, while not outright destroying the call in.'


8 rad needs to go. It coming in before allies can even tech their respective light vehicles is cancer. That, coupled with the fact that zook rifles are completely non-viable given how squishy they are, makes them incredibly oppressive. A pair of them can effectively end the game before the 10-minute mark.

We must be playing different games, the 8rad pops out AFTER the greyhound unless you go bars first, which make sense considering you are at most stages of the early to mid of the game, ahead in manpower value, field presence, the only extremly problematic thing of the 8rad at the moment is the ROF bug.

Heres what is suggest for balancing

Wehr

8-rad call in for mechanized is made into a combat group, given an pio, raising the cost to 420 MP, this should slow down the spam, as well increasing the pop requirements, giving them a non oppressive unit to go alongside it should ensure that spam is minimized, while not outright destroying the call in.

MG-42, add real traversal and increase set up time marginally, to ensure flanks can be appropriately done and makes the mg42 require more support as right now it is practically a frontline unit that locks flanks by itself

Grenadiers, i feel like something has to be done about their merge-luft combo, as having 16 mp reinforce on elites is absurdly efficient, but considering the matchup versus USF, it is needed to help make the matchup playable.

USF

Medic tent free reinforce needs to go, unquestionable.

EZ-8 needs either an HP nerf, or a scatter nerf. Alternatively, remove the white phosp, as it makes the tank overwhelmingly strong in duels and in group fights, especially considering its already far better than all stock generalists.

Rifles- Make the bar muni reduction cost be -15, so it's 45 per bar instead of 30, way to cheap and makes rifle spam way to efficient, pour it on them needs a muni cost, or a performance reduction as its way to braindead and overwhelmingly powerful.

Chaffe, reduce mp cost by 20, reduce damage output, right now due to its extremely strong damage, range and mobility. It combined with jeeps basically steamrolls DAK.

Scott - White phosp needs a 30 muni cost added to it, or a heavy performance reduction, it gives you shotblockers, and insane damage, on top of being on a long range, durable light vehicle. also make it cp 4

Pathfinders- give them some additional HP at vet 2, so they scale better as long range firepower and support units, right now they fall apart way too easily in the late game while providing very little power due to the long cooldowns.



Brits:

Honestly brits feel actually pretty balanced, i would most likely just buff footguards a little bit, as they feel worse compared to wehr elites, but overall the matchup vs wehr is fair, they stomp DAK but that's due to DAK units being worse.

DAK:
Honestly the biggest problem right now with dak is the early game, i would give the halftrack more armor, to help it contend with the jeep, with the pgrens being oppressed off by the rifle+jeep combo, the halftrack has to be able to stop it, or at least mitigate it more heavily.

Pjägers get added to t1, increase their range by 5, cost should be around 275, reduce their dmg output vs inf a little bit, and replace their weapon upgrade with something actually useful for their intended role.

Assgrens, give them either more HP, or RA, right now closing in is incredibly manpower inefficient versus rifles, and arguably sections, as you lose out and usually have incredibly bad trades, these should be your CQC shock unit in the mid to lategame, where pgrens scale into their long-range firepower. And their role should reflect that accordingly, right now it does not. Could also add sprint, but that seems unnecessary.

Bergsaleri - Either flat cost reduction, or a performance increases to be more in tune with how rifles are, as they lack the MP efficient economy of the US faction, even if they were on par with rifles, they would be inferior. Which is OK, they just need to be able to hold their ground more substantially

m13, give it 90 more HP, should solve its problem of dealing with the chaffee, but would wait on any real changes until USF nerfs are applied.

Marder, needs more mobility, right now its clunky, hard to use and basically dead weight.

As for the upgrades, grenades need to be 100, the same thing with the half-track armor. As right now, they are mandatory upgrades, but are overpriced for what they give you.


Honestly there's a bunch more i'd want. But this seems like a good start, not that i expect relic to act on it.