In general, I'd say Soviets are still very strong due to Cons/Maxims/Snipers, and their very powerful late-game call-ins. As far as I can tell, the strongest Soviet strategies from pre-patch haven't really been affected too much.
However, I agree with you that Guards have been hit too hard. I sort of agree with the button nerf since it was very frustrating to play against before and enabled some pretty abusive strategies. However, the double nerf of Button and the DPs damage profile is far too much. Guards were already pretty inconsistent against other infantry (especially given how often they drop their DPs), and this makes them very poor at it indeed. I guess its a case of a Jack of Trades unit being nerfed to the point where it doesn't fulfill any role to a satisfactory degree.
I tentatively predict that the predominant meta for Soviets will be mixed T1/T2 play in the mid game with 4 Cons acting as a core, with Shock Rifle/Motor for Shocks and late-game call-ins. |
For a long time now I've had real trouble playing Ostheer on urban, close-combat based maps like Stalingrad and Semoskiy, and the Mechanized Assault commander has been suggested to me as a solution. Supposedly, Assault Grenadiers are excellent at close range and can allow you to apply early pressure against Riflemen and Conscripts.
However, my experience has been very different. Assault Grens seem shockingly bad for 280 manpower - its almost a joke how bad they are compared to Riflemen, and for the same cost. If you can flank a lone Rifleman squad and get in close they will win, but in any other situation they seem practically useless. If there's another squads nearby you might as well forget it, and if a Rifle squad spots you at a decent range, you can expect to lose 1-2 models whilst closing in, which forces you to retreat almost as soon as you get into short range. Hanging back and using cover doesn't work for me either, since their DPS seems terrible at anything other than point-blank range.
What am I doing wrong? I really need something to help me out on these maps (especially against USF), but I just can't make Ass Grens work. |
@Kallipolan:
The Strategy you mentioned is really tricky at the current state. Through the favor of LMGs atm (for every faction), it is quite difficult to get into a Close Quarter Combat without taking serious damage.
The disadvantage about this is:
Panzergrenadiers are pretty expensive in producing costs and reinforcement costs. They also got not a good armor like Shocks, due to the last Pgren nerf.
I would just recommend that Strategy, if you want to play a Fun match and not to take it seriously.
You can't use the Osttruppen as a meat shield, because many players will focus the Pgrens out when you are going to attack.
Yeah, I only meant it as a way to have a bit of fun with Ostruppen. Panzergrens are pretty weak right now, but the fact that you can easily 3-4 squads running around all with Panzerschrecks is actually quite a good way of countering armour. Also, the main point of this strategy is to have Ostruppen supported by a halftrack as your main force, whilst the PGrens can run around flanking and back-capping. At the moment, simply running PGrens at LMG equipped units is obviously not going to end well for you. |
PTRS on Conscripts seems like a good fit to me, since you aren't giving up too much AI (unlike PGrens, for example). I think this seems like an interesting doctine, and one which may actually be quite good in 1v1 considering that we expect the call-in system to be heavily overhauled. At the moment, Soviets are relying pretty heavily on call-ins to counter armour, and this doctrine seems to offer an alternative, low-tech option that is more flexible than AT guns.
At any rate, we'll have to see how it performs in-game, alongside whatever other balance changes are made. |
Pretty much since launch, the Soviet SU-76 has been commonly written off as rubbish, useless and a waste of fuel. It is probably one of the least produced units in the game. However, I've been experimenting with it quite a bit over recent games, and I've come to some different conclusions.
The start with, the SU-76 fits into a strange role as a late-game unit with fairly weak AT that relies on a long cooldown ability for AI. Its an odd combo, but one that is quite well suited to certain situations. In particular, if rushed out the SU-76 can shut down many light vehicles due to its superior range. It also does very well against infantry with the HE barrage ability, which can wipe Grens in one shot with some RNG. The barrage is particularly useful on urban maps, since it is indirect fire and can destroy most neutral buildings in 2-3 shots. Similarly, it is decent for pushing OKW trucks, since it can pull out much quicker than a Zis-3 of the OKW player counterattacks.
However, the unit has a lot of problems. The T4 requirement is a big one, since this adds 120 fuel to the cost and means that the SU-76 usually misses its effective timing window. It is too fragile, which makes it very easy to hunt down with something like a P4 or Puma. The HE barrage has a very long cooldown. Finally, it lacks the penetration to be effective against any true tanks.
Therefore, while I quite like the vehicle, at the moment most people are correct in their assessment that it isn't worth using. I'm interested in what people think needs to be done to make the unit viable. Personally, I would like to see its use as an AI, anti-blob tool enhanced. This could either be done by giving it increased accuracy with normal shots (making like a fragile Stug with better range) or by giving it a shorter cooldown on the barrage. I also think some form of survivability wouldn't go amiss, maybe something like a smoke projector so it isn't utterly fucked the moment a tank hits the field.
What do y'all think? Anyone got any SU-76 success stories? |
I think its completely fine, the intended role is to kill static structures rather than mobile infantry. Penals already have flame-throwers for some anti-blob, and Conscripts/Guards/Shocks all have some form of grenade. Being able to move out of way of the Satchel is kind of the point - saying "I want this back because I could insta-gib 4 squads" just shows that it deserved the nerf IMO.
By the way, everyone should definitely try buttoning a vehicle with guards, and then satcheling it. Very satisfying. |
I think the Stuart definitely needs this, its extremely fragile for when it comes out and loses hard to almost anything armoured (including the Puma, which has the same fuel cost). If an Ostheer opponent opens fire with a Pak from the fog, its almost impossible to move it out of the way in time due to how fast it dies.
T-70 probably needs this, but to be honest that unit needs a more general rework to be useful. In terms of tech/function/cost its too similar to the T34, and there's no reason not to just save 30 more fuel.
God knows what the SU-76 needs to be viable. However, I suspect it will end up more like a mobile Zis-3 than a tank, with long enough range that you can keep it out of harms way. Therefore, HP remaining low won't necessarily be a problem. |
I don't think LMGs are necessarily the issue with PGrens (though they might be a seperate issue). Other close-range infantry squads such as Shocks remain decent in the current meta, because they have the appropriate tools to perform in their role (smoke grenades). I think PGrens compare poorly with other, similar squads and therefore need or buff (or at least a reinforce cost reduction).
As far as LMGs go, let me to articulate what a bunch of Axis fanboys are saying very badly: at the moment, Grenadiers rely almost solely on their LMGs to be able to fight other infantry. Since Rifles perform pretty well even without upgrades, Grenadiers (and Ost as a whole) would suffer most from a general nerf to LMGs. Therefore, some other buff to Grens would probably be necessary to avoid ruining Ostheer. |
I've also noticed this for the Rifle Company flame-throwers, and I've seen other players comment on it as well. I use Assault Engineers quite a lot though, and I wouldn't say they seem to blow up any more than usual. |
I think the 4 man squads is the main issue. Losing a single squad member whilst closing on the enemy is just so punishing at the moment, and so difficult to avoid. Additionally, their high cost means the reinforce cost is absurdly high, so at the moment using them as assault troops simply results in manpower bleed.
They're still great AT with Panzerschrecks though, and my concern about buffing their survivability is that they become too much of a threat to tanks (especially medium tanks, which are already suffering a bit in the current meta). I mean, imagine how hard it would be to deal with Shock Troops if they had 2 Panzerschrecks. |