SU-76: A Real Discussion

Pretty much since launch, the Soviet SU-76 has been commonly written off as rubbish, useless and a waste of fuel. It is probably one of the least produced units in the game. However, I've been experimenting with it quite a bit over recent games, and I've come to some different conclusions.

The start with, the SU-76 fits into a strange role as a late-game unit with fairly weak AT that relies on a long cooldown ability for AI. Its an odd combo, but one that is quite well suited to certain situations. In particular, if rushed out the SU-76 can shut down many light vehicles due to its superior range. It also does very well against infantry with the HE barrage ability, which can wipe Grens in one shot with some RNG. The barrage is particularly useful on urban maps, since it is indirect fire and can destroy most neutral buildings in 2-3 shots. Similarly, it is decent for pushing OKW trucks, since it can pull out much quicker than a Zis-3 of the OKW player counterattacks.

However, the unit has a lot of problems. The T4 requirement is a big one, since this adds 120 fuel to the cost and means that the SU-76 usually misses its effective timing window. It is too fragile, which makes it very easy to hunt down with something like a P4 or Puma. The HE barrage has a very long cooldown. Finally, it lacks the penetration to be effective against any true tanks.

Therefore, while I quite like the vehicle, at the moment most people are correct in their assessment that it isn't worth using. I'm interested in what people think needs to be done to make the unit viable. Personally, I would like to see its use as an AI, anti-blob tool enhanced. This could either be done by giving it increased accuracy with normal shots (making like a fragile Stug with better range) or by giving it a shorter cooldown on the barrage. I also think some form of survivability wouldn't go amiss, maybe something like a smoke projector so it isn't utterly fucked the moment a tank hits the field.

What do y'all think? Anyone got any SU-76 success stories?

Pretty much since launch, the Soviet SU-76 has been commonly written off as rubbish, useless and a waste of fuel. It is probably one of the least produced units in the game. However, I've been experimenting with it quite a bit over recent games, and I've come to some different conclusions.

The start with, the SU-76 fits into a strange role as a late-game unit with fairly weak AT that relies on a long cooldown ability for AI. Its an odd combo, but one that is quite well suited to certain situations. In particular, if rushed out the SU-76 can shut down many light vehicles due to its superior range. It also does very well against infantry with the HE barrage ability, which can wipe Grens in one shot with some RNG. The barrage is particularly useful on urban maps, since it is indirect fire and can destroy most neutral buildings in 2-3 shots. Similarly, it is decent for pushing OKW trucks, since it can pull out much quicker than a Zis-3 of the OKW player counterattacks.

However, the unit has a lot of problems. The T4 requirement is a big one, since this adds 120 fuel to the cost and means that the SU-76 usually misses its effective timing window. It is too fragile, which makes it very easy to hunt down with something like a P4 or Puma. The HE barrage has a very long cooldown. Finally, it lacks the penetration to be effective against any true tanks.

Therefore, while I quite like the vehicle, at the moment most people are correct in their assessment that it isn't worth using. I'm interested in what people think needs to be done to make the unit viable. Personally, I would like to see its use as an AI, anti-blob tool enhanced. This could either be done by giving it increased accuracy with normal shots (making like a fragile Stug with better range) or by giving it a shorter cooldown on the barrage. I also think some form of survivability wouldn't go amiss, maybe something like a smoke projector so it isn't utterly fucked the moment a tank hits the field.

What do y'all think? Anyone got any SU-76 success stories?

the problem is soviet tech structure, not like US.

i would suggest, soviet T3 and T4 both cost only 40 fuel,
T3 can build halftrack initially
T4 can build su-76 initially
but need to unlock t34, T70 or su-85, katusha more fuel need to be spent,
spend additional 40 fuel, unlock t70, another 40 fuel, unlock t34.
spend additional 40 fuel, unlock Katusha(typo), another 40, unlock su-85

In this way, soviet can have more tech variability and more combined armed options.
However, it is really up to Relic \, how would they like to proceed.

The SU-76 is essentially the Soviet mirror-equivalent of the StuG-III. Its got slightly less armor, HP and penetration but they are essentially the same vehicle (The StuG-III is slightly better in nearly every way at the expense of not having the HE-barrage and also costing more fuel).

I overlook the SU-76 in game mainly because of the fact its eclipsed by the other stuff in its tier: Yes, the SU-76 has a HE barrage but in the same tech, you get the Katyusha which kinda blows the HE barrage completely out of the water; Yes, the SU-76 is an assault gun which is fairly decent against tanks but in the same tier, you get the SU-85 which is far better in every way than the SU-76 in the AT department.

Now that the T70 is a fairly ba(d)lanced tank, I'd actually like to see the T70 and the SU-76 switch places in the tech tiers. I'd feel without the Katyusha and the SU-85 overshadowing the SU-76 massively, it could actually be a fairly useful tank.

I actually like the Su-76, it can be the game changer early game if you get it out early enough. It will demolish all axis early armour, and supported by an AT gun you can put up a decent fight for any early Pz.IV or Ostwind.

It is also a good option to remove OKW trucks, and cause massive damage to fortified positions. Had a couple of games where my SU-76 has demolished Pz.IV's themself and went on to win the game in a matter of minutes.

Soviet teching is quite close to vcoh PE. The idea of cheap t3/4 buildings sounds very interesting (with upgrades to allow the t34 or su85). This would make the T70 similar to the role of the PE 222 and the su76 similar as the ATHT. Both units could be made at the same time for minimal cost. At least with this way there's a sense of role/purpose for these units. And the tiering would feel more intuitive, actually worth investing and flexible.

The faction needs a redesign to make it more appealing. Also throw in conscript upgrades from T1/T2 buildings. Eg T1 provides an option to upgrade conscript AI (LMG or zeal).

One issue is the fact that you can get T4 and an SU76 out, then maybe an SU85, just in time to face multiple Tigers. If call-ins are altered to make german tier 3 tanks more common, SU76 would probably see more use.

I don't think Relic is going to alter tier structure or add in upgrades to the base faction from scratch at this point (it's been a year of people asking for exactly that, and nothing has happened). Anyway they did say somewhere that they intended for the Soviets to be an inflexible faction (one high tier and stick with it), which is unfortunate but will probably continue to dictate the faction design.

Yea.... the SU-76 has the AI ability of an SU-85, it barely kills infantry on auto fire. The barrage has a really long cool down plus is not terribly effective. It is paper thin, and has a slow rotation + movement. It offers nothing to the game in its current state. It really needs to become more like the StugE in in roles. Light AT, an effective barrage like the Zis, and consistent enough hits. Now if it did become really effective there is no reason why It should not have an increase in price, but It does need quite a bit of help to justify getting it.

Yeah that's true. Too bad since that puts off a lot of players. Feels like a limited PE faction.

When call ins are fixed teching will be more appealing, but the stock tanks will still be better to get than the light vehicles (since t34 is good enough for the AI role of the t34, etc.).

Unless they make the T70 and su76 cost 50 fuel, so u can get it earlier and not delay the real tanks as much.

If they did swap vehicles (Imo wouldn't change flexibility or design that much), the synergy of t70+su85 would be much more appealing. Basically most players would actually get the t70 first. And su76 has a role (artillery and long range AT) to support t34s.

I feel like an SU76 as it stands in Tier 3 wouldn't help it. I would still wait for 30 more fuel and get the T34 every time. It's simply better in every role IMO.

I think the best thing to do would be to make SU76 only 50 fuel, make them a weak general unit that you need lots of to be a threat. Historically they built a huge amount of these things right?

The problem I have with it now is that by the time you've built one, it's usually dead before you can get a second one out, alternatively it's doing nothing because it's running from threats the whole time. If two are on the field at the same time they can at least cover each other or be a threat to heavier armor. When you keep building more and end up with like, four or five, then it's a force to be reckoned with. At the current costs, it just can't be done IMO. The opponent will destroy them as fast as you build them.

I belive that su-76 needs nothing more than stats upgrade, maybe even with some higher price but not too much couse it's far too expensive now. It should be able to kill infantry with it's normal shells just like tanks do (by giving it much bigger AoE) and should have increased penetration (damage increase is not needed). To make it ballanced I would slightly reduce it's range, like by 5, not to make it a little ISU. Little accurancy decrease could also help if it would become op, what I suggest is to make it more like turret-less tank than tank destroyer in role, it could be interesting as there are no vehicles like that in game and there is need for tank-like vehicle in soviet t4.

Move it to tier two maybe? the player has the option to get the immobile AT gun or wait for fuel to get an SU76 which can be moved around easier??

If su76 was moved to T3, i'd get the t34 first too.

But later on, a su76 might be worth getting and it has better synergy with the t34 than the su85, or the scenario right now with the t70 with the t34. This is presuming that the su76 had good AT penetration, which it doesnt really.



The t70 on the other hand, would be worth getting 1st before the su85.

Switch the Su-76 to T3 and make it a light arty unit, problem solved.

Or decrease the cost if they still want to keep it in T4.

Fix the soviet teching and building paths and then lets look into the su76

I like to build a couple against OKW as Soviets. They are adequate to scare off Pumas if you have a couple and/or you can keep at range, and with 2-3, their barrage is great against blobs, especially if you build 2-3 Maxims as well to trap them in place before the barrage starts. The weakest part of the OKW game, IMHO, is the midgame - they're stalling for fuel for their big guns, and riding on a Luchs, or Puma, and their scary inf blobs. SU-76 is great against this sort of stalling.

I don't build them much against Ostheer, or teams with 2+ Ostheer on them, since Ostwinds, PIVs, etc can kill them way too easily.

EDIT -

I'd love to see them drop in cost (50-60 fuel) and get extra power against infantry, both with their normal attack, and with their barrage. Accuracy, splash, something. I'd like to see a rotation speed increase as well to aid in escaping. A vehicle damage buff would be nice, too, but I'd rather have them be an anti-infantry tool, I think.