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Thread: Mg42 constantly humiliated17 Dec 2014, 08:25 AM I don't understand some people around here. 80% of time when my rifles enter in the cone of fire they get suppressed at first burst. the 20 last % are when they are obviously in cover already. What do you want more? MG suppression ignoring cover? Faster set up? Why would you be helped with a UP when it is first a bad positioning/repositioning MG issue. More DPS? So you can spam them effectively and deny allied large areas of the map for 480mp in early game? Many time, when I outplay an Ostheer player early game, flanking his MG and kill his men, it is because I have gathered all my squads RE + Rifles in the move, around 4-5 squads (2 REs + 2 or 3 rifles). And almost all the time, the Ostheer player just has 1 MG + 2 grenadiers. Where are the rest of his troops? Trying to cap somewhere else with his pioneer and in many games I have catch him over extending with his first grenadiers and made 1 or 2 retreat already couple of second before my assault. I have also played many Ostheer players not trying to overextend and managing their little army around that MG, keeping their squads close enough to support each other... And in those game, I rarely outplay them in the 10 first minutes. In: Lobby
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution16 Dec 2014, 14:57 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 14:03 PMpigsoup i'm sorry but all i can say to that scenario is: inf+tank army >>> inf army in NON-PUDDLED map in the rotation. so if the inf+tank army could not sustain enough damage to the inf army by straight up damage or taking the map, its the player's fault for not playing well and getting behind. and having to wait only five more minute for a heavy for having more versatile force than your enemy's isn't too much of a penalty. Actual game design isn't agreeing with you. There are 3 factions that can wait with 0 fuel unit support till calls-in. and for the 4th one, it is only because they have no heavy capabilities... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution16 Dec 2014, 10:59 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 10:26 AMpigsoup 1. that is because tiger/is2 >>> pz4/t34. and the tech cost 2. it would discourage having more than 1 heavy, which is the point, not strictly limit. 3. fuel upkeep indirectly nerfs heavies by making it harder to replace due to penalties. this which in turn becomes indirect buffs for the stock medium tanks which has lighter load on the economy, therefore easier to replace/spam. Let's take an example: We have a game balanced in territory point of view. Player A decides to spam infantry and so has 0 fuel cost. He is waiting for a call-in to take the edge Player B has less infantry but has invested in light and med armor. he cannot make the difference because Player A infantry focus is too effective vs ligh and medium armor units. Player A = 0 fuel upkeep. Player B = 5 fuel upkeep. who's going to have the fuel advantage late game? Player A with a infantry spam + Heavy tank that will rape anything on the field Player B with less infantry, some light and medium tanks becoming useless and easy targets to the heavy. AND having to wait 5 minutes more to get his own heavy because the fuel upkeep left him behind in fuel. To have 2 heavies on the field, you obviously need to skip light and med fuel units. And if you can do so, that's because the game doesn't reward enough med tanks users. So make fuel units more attractive and obviously more effective and you'll solve your heavy spam problem. Nobody is going to spam heavies if he need to deploy fuel units before because it is unlikely he will have the fuel and popcap for that. That's how was working vcoh before OF. At equal skill level, you had to build a medium tank/ tank hunter to counter other tanks. You couldn't really only rely on your Pershing/Tiger/Tiger Ace to win the game. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution16 Dec 2014, 09:28 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Dec 2014, 03:21 AMpigsoup having tanks will hurt your fuel economy just like how having infantries hurt your man power economy. and heavy tanks would have higher fuel upkeep. a good suggestion from the past was 0-1 fu/min for light tanks/vehicles, 2-3 fu/min for medium, 6-7 fu/min for heavies, 8-10 fu/min for okw's super heavies. this means having any vehicle would delay your next one, which means massing your tanks would take longer and even if you do, your fuel won't stockpile like crazy so you can just get an instant replacement once you lose them. this would affect heavy tanks more and thus having more than 1 tiger/is2/isu/kt/jagd/ele would hurt your fuel econ so bad that it wouldn't be ideal. It can also completely enforce people to play only infantry until heavy of super heavy hit the field. It is already something happening today, you know blobbs into call-ins meta. So yes, maybe it would limit heavies or super heavies by 1 per player (not sure of that). But it would not solve the underlying issue: Why do people wait for heavy instead of going stock units. So in fact, if you make sure people are spending a reasonable amount of fuel early and mid game to stay on the field, heavy and super heavy will be naturally limited. So by ensuring people cannot reasonably stay on a game with only infantry spam until heavies are available, you make a natural limitation of heavies. This plus territory popcap like in vCoh. if relic wants to limit heavy spam, they need to redesign the fundamental of the game, limiting comeback situations from a game mechanism perspective. So make the game harder to learn, less casual friendly, the opposite of their strategy since OF. Another option, and I assume Relic is looking into it is to specialize heavies and super heavies like they did with USI/Jag. Why a Tiger should be a treat for infantry, why is it capable of wiping with 1 shot many different infantry squads? Same for IS2 or any other Heavy/Super Heavy. There is here again a design flaw, making ultra late units super effective vs anything at any ranges. Those units should be really dedicated with strength a weakness, And I'm not only talking about rear armor. A Heavy tank shouldn't be a treat for infantry squads, it should be the opposite. Each of them could have, like the Jag a close blind area where they couldn't fire with their main gun (at least on infantry), only rely on their MGs if available. So you had more micro and make having 2 heavy, instead of 1 heavy + medium support units, less efficient. I mean, there are so much ideas possible to balance it, so much to do with the design before looking into any kind of limitation... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution15 Dec 2014, 11:53 AM Jump back to quoted post15 Dec 2014, 11:45 AMJohnnyB I would agree with you if I wouldn't have seen so many battles won from bellow 5 tickets just because the other player called a KT, for instance . KT is a stock unit. Having it so fast is linked to another OKW specific issue - AI,AT infantry too effective to spend fuel in med tanks. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution15 Dec 2014, 11:32 AM At the moment you say "that unit is limited but not that one", it only generates more balancing issues. The best ojective to balance those units is to delay the moment they hit the field. It will be more complicated for any players to call ins 2 ISU or 2 Jag if already the 1st one you get is when you hit 50 victory points left before your defeat. What is important is to give enough room - and by room I mean time to be effective - to medium tanks. I can ensure you that if you are completely pushed back by medium tanks and still have to wait 5 minutes to get your Jag/ISU and only have 50 victory points left, you'll have to take decisions and buy some med tanks if you want to come back. Now there are several options to do that, up to Relic to see what is the best one. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Heavy call-ins, a much debated subject. Possible solution15 Dec 2014, 08:29 AM 1- Remove fuel/munition income from neutral points and put back a small income aera (+5) and a large one (+8) 2- Reduce any stock units / tiers upgrade fuel price by 10-20% to not make the game too slow. reduce any abilities munition price by 10-20% as well. Result: No army will be viable to turtule enough to wait for calls-in units. Stock units will become far more critical to success. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Schwerer Panzer Headquarters12 Dec 2014, 08:12 AM Reco Commander is a good asset vs OKW. Since Forwarded observer isn't that really interesting early game, do not pick the commander before unlocking the M8. So your opponent will not know what commander you'll use vs him. Use the M8 to decimate his most important squads early game like his 1st shreck squad or elite infantry. I would recommand to go T3 to have AT capabilities if he build a half-truck or unlock zooks and equip your RE squads. when You have localized his SPH, Or you have enough munition for two barrage strikes and so call-in two Pathfinders and you double barrage it. Fast and clean. Or you go T4, pomp out a sherman and you combine it with a barrage, fast and clean as well. In: US Forces Strategies
Thread: OKW, the root of most balance issues?11 Dec 2014, 11:25 AM Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2014, 10:39 AMJohnnyB You speak about a T3 (Puma building) oppening. Let's not cut the choice of a T2 start (JagdPz building). That's why I'm talking about amo reduction together with a raketen buff. A munition price for those super-units still won't solve your problem, because OKW player will simply not invest in that expensive amo upgrade. Why should I pay for a lmg 34 for Obers or even an FG42 upgrade for fallschirms when all I need to do is invest amo in my volks blob and all my problems are solved? Especially if I chose a doctrine with infiltration grenades. In this particular case, it's certain that all I need is a volks blob and some sturmpio. I'm talking about fuel free opening and mid game for OKW working better than investing any fuel point into something before your panther. If you make OKW players pay for their weapons like anybody else, they'll have to choose what sort of weapon they want accordingly to their play style. You go T2+T4, volkspam + shreck, You'll be most likely short in munition to equip your obers or falls or jaegers. So you'll go for halftruck + luch to get AI power. You go T3+T4, Puma opening, munition free + T4 obers or call-ins falls where you spend your munition. Here you have your two base strats, like Sov and USF work, Ostheer is different because you must build their tiers 1 per 1, but it is the same underlying gameplay. And if you want to mix everything, a bit of shrecks + a bit of LMGs, you are most welcome since you'll be limited in both area by your munition income, you'll also have to invest more fuel to combine your arms. @ Jaigen, Pumas counter Shermans more than well. Add a Raken behind and you're close to rape it before he understand what happens. Puma has longer ranger than Sherman, so it need to get close to shot at it and so enter in the raken range of fire. It is only a matter of combined arms, what do you have to support your Puma vs what he has to support his sherman. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Company of Call-Ins 2 - An Argument for Change11 Dec 2014, 10:55 AM 1- Gives only 1 fuel point/minute per territory hold would be a good start to make campy-stalling players not being able to call-in heavies in time to come back in most of their game. It would simply increase the time to get tanks. On the same, apply a 15%-20% fuel cost reduction to all stock units so they are not that much impacted. This solution does not requires any change in game mechanisms. -2 Add building upgrades to all factions that reduce popcap mp and fuel cost of stock units only. Put that upgrade tiers 3 or 4 and balance it regarding factions design. So at least, when heavies and super heavies hit the field, you can swarm stock tanks to counter them. In: COH2 Gameplay