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Thread: Destroyed tanks blocking sight needs to go17 Apr 2015, 10:14 AM It is why I use more Rifle company when I know I'll extra vision because of the map, That rifle flare is one of the best tool to combine with M36. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Blob nerf aura16 Apr 2015, 15:50 PM Buffing anti-blob units will make them primarily overpowered vs single unit they're mean to counter aka one shot ability many anti-blob already have. ISG and USF howi buff is quite interesting but it also works too well vs 1 single squad, buffing it too much would make people building 2 or 3 them and sit on their defense. And people who never heard about tactical blob never played the game... Moving 3+ squads in a small radius isn't something rare, any Ostheer player does it when he Attack move with 2 paks + 1 or 2 potential support unit. Don't tell me no, I have ready it again today from good players here as a strategy to counter IS2. And the same goes for any faction in many situations. I think people have a really poor definition of what a blob is in term of game mechanism and only think about the most obvious examples, which is simply wrong. You cannot put a buff or debuff to game mechanism and expect it to impact one situation over 10-20 existant. Edit: Removing Attack move is probably the best measure, simple and easy to put in place, I have read so far to counter the particular way of blobbing people want to get rid off without impacting too much the rest of the gameplay. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Blob nerf aura16 Apr 2015, 14:38 PM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 14:22 PMBartonPL It somehow worked in CoH1 to nerf pio spam, it could work for every type of infantry in CoH2 also, my idea is simple, nerf starts affecting squad when there's at least 2 other infantry units (type doesnt matter), in X radius from it, each other infantry unit increases stacking and increases chance to hit this squad by for example 5%, up to 5 stacks, so in very blobby way, one squad could get up to 25% received accuracy penalty (that's 7 squads). I think this could be great option when current volks blob, PTRS, Zook spam meta is almost in every game What radius? If I put 3 squads in cover in the radius does it work? If I put a pioneer (for the vision) + MG42 (for the suppression) + Volks (for the support) in the radius, they all will receive the penalty? It is going to be 10 times easier to take them down with a good flank If I have to push to pass a bridge or a narrow path, Penalty? If I have been pushed into my base - penalty vs that m20/half-track/luch already raping me? 3-4-5-6-7 squads in a blobs is usually enough spread, except when the blob pass through a narrow path, to make your radius large to be effective. And it will affect anything else that is not necessarily a blob. And last, what about tactical blob? When you need to push hard a point with all your squad to break a defensive line? It works with piospam in coh1 because its only affects piospammers... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Which Faction Is OP At Present & Why ?16 Apr 2015, 09:30 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 06:49 AMJohnnyB Contradiction: Everybody say that COH1 was a better game than COH2. Everybody say that they hate blobs. Yet COH1 had the most nasty blobs I can remember, and punishible by so few things unlike in COH2. Examples: 1. Paras blob. The most solid infantry in game so they could engage the best axis infantry especially if they were vetted. With upgrades, no escape for vehicles. With fire up, let's not forget = they didn't care about HMGs. 2. Ranger blob. They could eat a structure in a matter of seconds. Verry nasty on vehicles. With upgrade, verry nasty on infantry too. With fire up, too. 3. British blob. Different upgrades fro AI to Piats. With all upgrades, untouchable by vehicles or infantry. With officers, the one and only blob of doom. 4. Grenadiers blob. Verry solid, different upgrades from AI to AT. With medical bunkers and zeal from terror doctrine = prepare for the army of ants. No matter how manny you kill, they will overrun you. 5. The fragile but so lethal PE blob. STG upgrade? All infantry should run like hell. Shreck upgrade? British, don't build anything. It's in vain. The only anti-blob weapon that was truly effective was the german nebelwerfer because of 2 features: 1. Rockets would supress every infantry squad on a huge area at the moment of impact; 2. The rockets had an incendiary effect, so if you forgot the squads there supressed, they would have burned like mice. So you needed to hit the retreat button. Maybe we should have more weapons like nebelwerfers in game. Relic made a little try with the pack howie and OKW leigh but it's barely perceptible in game. That would be a nice feature for PZWerfer for instance which is soooo shity. Not burning rockets, but at least supression. Every faction needs a weapon old nebelwerfer style. Maybe this would discourage blobs. These are my 2 cents. Still I want to conclude that COH2 blobs < COH1 blobs in my opinion therefore I don't find COH2 blobs so disturbing. People call blob anything that beat them. 2, 3 or 4 squads spread or not doesn't matter in fact. People prefers to say it was a blob and he played better but there is nothing he can do vs a blob. I think the skill level in Coh2 is far lower than in Coh1, simply because Relic made really clear they wanted it that way and removed a lot of natural counter to low skill mechanisms such as blob. You cannot play sneaky, you cannot rely on high risk / high reward units to base your strategy because it would suppose to be a way to quickly seal the fate a match. And this, Relic doesn't want it, Relic wants match that goes to end CP units and wants those end CP units being able to reverse the fate of a match. This is the reality of the game today. Peoples want to debuff Blobs, but it is never going to happen because Blob is a concept without a clear definition. When, during a match, I decide to monumentally blob my units to push in a strategic point. What, apart from my idea of what a blob is, define the blob? Who can say, apart from reading in my mind, how many units I decide to use to do so? 2, 3, 4?. And why should I be debuffed for that? We all blob spontaneously during a match when the situation requires it, why should we be debuffed for that?. what people want is to debuff people playing blob as a global strategy all games long. The only way to tone down strategic blobs efficiency but saving spontaneous tactical blobs is for Relic to set back those mechanisms and re-increase the general skill level require to play the game. In: Lobby
Thread: Link Upkeep and popcap cost with Tier building15 Apr 2015, 09:42 AM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 19:56 PMkamk That is exactly what is happening right now. The fancy Volks & Obers, or upped Rifles, or whatsoever, doesn't start like it, it just continues because it's easier to play like it, and not punished enough. Again, not even an early game mix. You should maybe watch SPrice blob around Rifles. It's kinda digusting, but very effective from start to end. It's not the "hurr durr blob of doom", it's just literally blobbing up units. Maps are another issue of course, and ~~Lyon~~ Sittard summer is probably one of the worst - i veto'd it since day 1, before ever even playing it, guess why. Anyways, your suggestion won't work. You screw over fun & casual meta, you screw over factions that have working horses, you force a techup for factions that don't need one necessarily and give advantages for factions that can skip tech easily. The whole suggestion only might (!) limit spam, and in no way blobbing. just my 2 cent, and please don't feel offended (which wasn't my intention). My two cents is that you don't really understand the concept I exposed. This is sad Let simply put the goals. 1- Early spam of basic squads = resource penalties + popcap penalty that can only be overcome by tiering. Longer you stay at T0 and spam basic squad highest is the impact on your economy. Early spam of basic squads + call-ins meta aka I wait for my IS2/Tiger or whatever = punished because of the popcap and resource penalty. This is simple, in term of economy, today going 6 basic units is cheaper than 4 + 1 light vehicle. With this proposal, going 6 basic units will be equally or higher expensive than 4 + 1 light vehicle. Better if it is higher expensive imo. Blob will still be possible but with a clear impact on your economy early/mid game. It will slow your blob and starve your mp income. Why not late game? Because late game is late game I want to say, and if your opponent hasn't take the advantage to punish you, there is not reason to still be resource starved. If I come back to the volks + obers example. Why obers are so powerful in this format (except from obers itself)? Because volks are cheap Because volks are numerous If you make volks not cheap when numerous until late game, you just break the blob dynamic. Same goes with any blob format like CptPrice and his zook blob. because he'll have to invest in something else that don't break his economy. A blob will be simply to expensive to be maintain. Why and why not debuff blobs? Because you cannot, and bear in mind that all of us would like it if it was possible, you cannot define what a blob is. Why? Because blob is a concept, there not one definition of what is a blob. Anybody here has his own definition. The idea of applying a debuff for blobbing, I had it years ago, I had it in coh1 when I started facing piospam strat. And since this time, I have think a lot about how to debuff it and came to the conclusion you cannot simply create a rule that will only affect real-true blobbers, it is simply impossible. But you can restrict resources and play with upkeep and popcap. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Link Upkeep and popcap cost with Tier building14 Apr 2015, 14:18 PM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 13:38 PMkamk If you increase popcap / upkeep for all units, why would that stop me from getting an Xth Gren squad instead of an MG42, and then run around blobbed with them? Nothing, it just adds a downside in your economy, You'll paid twice the price of your squad and slow down your economy. If you just do it for certain units, do you really think players will not just spam & blob other units? I let you spam and blob MG42 or snipers. Game mechanisms are already quite well done around them. Your mechanic will at best only limit the quantity of a certain unit, not the blobbing itself. With your suggestion 6 Rifles spread out properly would be a "blob", and 3 Volks + 3 Obers a-moving together not. No, it doesn't, there is no limitation, just a new downside to early blob. You can spam and blob as much as volks/rifles/cons as you want after deploying your T3/T4. 3 volks + 3 obers works well when you don't need anything else than volks early game to maintain your field presence at low cost. Since it will not be the case anymore or at highest cost, or you'll have diversify your army and so have less need in your obers, or you'll blob as before but your obers will come later simply because you'll have less resource to invest in. I do not want to remove Obers usage or volks/obers synergy, just put a downside if you fail to use it properly. Btw. you got to be kidding me with SOV & USF not blobbing, especially this patch. Never say not blobbing, I just say its effectiveness disappear faster than OKW blob. And the solution I propose is equal for any faction blobs. You could define a blob by area of effect. No you can't. Because when I'm playing sittard summer and try to pass a bridge with more than 2 squads I'm not blobbing. When I play semois and pass any narrow chock points in that map with more than 1 squad, I'm not blobbing. When I play any map that have a edges and roads that make your squads stick together for a while before being able to spread them, I and neither you are blobbing. Especially on Stalingrad. So I don't know why we should receive a penalty for that. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Link Upkeep and popcap cost with Tier building14 Apr 2015, 12:48 PM wrong edit In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Link Upkeep and popcap cost with Tier building14 Apr 2015, 12:46 PM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 11:17 AMkamk How would this even work with factions that can skip tech? Why would popcap influence blobbing... at all? How would the 1st option ever influence blobbing when by the time you would need the current popcap you already got it anyways. How would the 2nd option be ever a good idea, if teching up to counter blobbing also screws your popcap over? Or as Katitof said: "both solutions are terrible" Popcap reduces your MP income. More your popcap raises, more your MP income reduces. It is just a matter of upkeep in fact. If you make your basic units consuming more upkeep, making a lot of them will cost you more in term of manpower drain. Remember there are 2 manpower drain in the game. 1-Building/reinforce cost 2-Upkeep Its just a matter of balance between the 2 of them. If blobbing is so effective, it is primarily because it is cheaper to maintain than going combined arms (because combined arms suppose investing and using fuel). In Coh1, Riflesquads had a high ukpeek rate which make going more than 4 riflesquads really costly in term of upkeep and so reduce the blob capabilities for USF early game. So the idea is to adapt it to Coh2, if in coh1, mp income was linked to territory, today its linked to popcap, lower the popcap is, higher your mp income is. Blobbing is an early strategy that can survive late game, this is a second reason it works well for OKW, but less for Sov and USF, because you don't have the AT capability on your basic squads. So my idea is simply to make blob less cost effective early game. Any average player can counter a blob early game, the problem becomes more evident at mid game when you try to diversify and the blobber just upgrade his blob. If diversifying cost less than maintaining a blob, people will simply abandon the idea because a couple of bad hits will put them too far behind in term of resource to comeback evidently in the game. Katitof is wrong in his solution for one reason, nobody can clearly define what blob is. Applying a debuff is something I would like as well... only if you can define clearly how to apply it which is almost impossible. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Link Upkeep and popcap cost with Tier building14 Apr 2015, 10:49 AM I always think a good way to strongly reduce blobs in general is to make it hurt badly your economy. Not only with losses but with a highest upkeep rate that make you struggle if you don't overcome fast your opponent. I'm not saying Blob isn't part of the gameplay, but it should have a stronger downside, something that deny you winning on the long run. Putting it back into the all-in strat categories, available but short in life during a match. Coh1 had a interesting system design around upkeep and popcap linked to territory. But since someone in the high level decision making at Relic doesn't like the concept because it removes all the fun around come back. Maybe another way around is possible not including territories. So why don't linking Popcap with Tier Building? But not in a way tier buildings unlock more popcap. 1st option: unit popcap cost reducing with Tier buildings (for free or not, I'm not into that level of detail). So for example a rifle squad today cost 7pop. (numbers below are only as example) With this change, a riflesquad cost, at the beginning of the game without T1 or T2, 12pop. Building T1 decrease it pop cost at 10pop Building T2 decrease it pop cost at 8pop Building T3 decrease it pop cost at 7pop And all the same for all basic stock units, cons/volks/gren/rifles and call-ins units squads. The outcome would be a economy less viable if blobbing and not teching, blobbing would become a playstyle that locks you in low tiers with few resources. Instead people would be force to tier up to reduce the popcap rate and diversify its army in order to keep the popcap level acceptable before reaching the last tier where the situation would become again equal as today in term of popcap cost. 2nd option The exact opposite way around. It seems a bit silly but why not discuss about it as well. Every time you build a tier building, your basic stock squand have their upkeep increased. So instead of a riflesquad a 7pop, let's say it starts at 5pop Building T1 increase it at 7pop Building T2 increase it at 9pop Building T3 increase it at 11pop So more the game last, more blobbing would cost in term of popcap. With this option I can see many issues already, I'm not sure this option is more viable, but just think about it, maybe something good can be design from it. Any thought? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Should OKW be able to build caches?14 Apr 2015, 07:14 AM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2015, 05:33 AMJohnnyB You know what? Shut up allready, he beated you on 1v1, have some decency. Untill you do the same, you have no right to make such comments. And why he played so badly you smart asses here? I didn't see him making micro mistakes tbh, he managed to dodge every time when needed and he avoided squad losses quite well. More than this, he managed to assure map presence and constantly threat the opponent's fuel. And sovies still managed to field 2 IS2s and one KV8 (or there were two??). Omg don't you see who is the real OP faction here? Who has all the options, can build so many vehicles? I can't beleive you guys are crying about the mp float instead taking a real look to the doctrine Alex played. 90% of its infantry was cheap. Cheap to reinforce, cheap to deploy. Crappy in terms of efficiency (I don't think you will compare fusiliers with Falls JLIs or Obersoldaten), but he compensate this with the sturm officer, which is a risky choice all around except realy small maps like this one. In other words he did exactly what he was supposed to, with all the right choices and good micro. And you tried to discredit him. You should be ashamed. All of you. And if it's the first 1v1 he played with OKW on this map, it's even more worthy. I played this map in 1v1 with all factions including OKW and I have to admit I'm afraid I didn't play it that well. Lol, Sturm officer + Volks/fusillers blobs is a 3vs3 - 4vs4 usual shitty strat. Nothing knew here. How is it call again, ah yes, cheese strat. - How can I make sure my blob playstyle is the most effective possible? - Pop a sturm officier! You don't need obers or falls, just focus fire at max range and it works pretty well AI and AT. Anyway, that's a victory for Alex. Maybe you can organize a 2vs2 you and Alex vs Queen and whoever! Popcorn time !! In: COH2 Balance