There is nothing to indicated that game was balanced around arranged teams.
On the contrary silly things like donating weapon/calliopes/priest across team members where removed.
For year the game was being balanced around 1vs1 and the other modes where a mess I am pretty sure most people would not like to back to that.
The modding team never hided it. They had the objective to make arranged team more balanced for the reason I exposed, I didn't invent anything that what they say. Where I think they lie to us is the narrative they made of Relic not wanting to allow the necessary changed to compensate their nerf. They always knew Relic wouldn't allow those changes, they probably asked before but still knowing the answer they decided to go through it with the only condition that wouldn't impact much the 1vs1 competitive scene.
1vs1 competitive scene is fine and working if you're happy to see every time the same boring meta. Arranged team competitive scene is working as intended, there are many tournaments 2vs2, 3vs3 and 4vs4. Only thing that doesn't work anymore is the basis of balance between every factions outside of Sov and Ostheer. |
I believe its just a misunderstanding of concept of "balance". All factions are playable and can win games, there are few underpowered units and few units which are stronger then they should be.
Main problem of CoH2 - its very toxic to play. All factions have situations were you literally have to fight up hill battles.
It feels unbalanced because most of the times power-level of factions goes up and down constantly, without any smooth curve.
On top of that, because of how factions are made there is a huge gap within the players base in terms of how they perform.
Like 222 for example, in hands of average player it performs alright, but in the hands of good players its almost a godlike unit which is super hard to deal with.
On multiple occasions units were buffed\nerfed solely based on the top player perspective.
Nope, there are 2 factions that just sit on the 3 others and nope again on 90% maps USF/UKF can't win vs Ostheer unless using a specific build order/commander just because they have nothing to counter Ostheer powerspike units like sniper or even HMG and then dual pak40. The reason why you believe they can win is purely due to ELO score and matchmaking being in its essence unbalance atm. But two players with the exact same level playing Ostheer vs UKF or USF on different rounds would irremediably end by Ostheer winning each match. That's what the various tournaments showed us lately.
You can't make each units around their equivalent in other factions somewaht equal and say factions are balanced if some of them are missing units in their stock.
The modding team failed to balance the game because their objective was to balance Arranged-team gameplay which is probably even nicher than 1vs1. |
Multiplayer could have some assets free to play like custom games, this could serve as demo for new players willing to give a try, obviously they could also be limited in their parameters like in number of game played per day, maps or cosmetics available. The rest could then be unlocked by paying the game/suscription. |
Somehow the fascist mods allow you to throw insults even though you are making braindead comments about "Riflemen barely stronger than pioneers".
I already agreed long long ago that Rear Echelons suck. The only strawman is your brain.
Pointing out that you called 2017 changes "recent OKW buffs" isn't a fucking strawman. You straw-brained moron.
Do you have any other way to argument than insulting people? no?
I'm in a good mood today so I'll pass on it for once and try to respond to you. Let me recall what I wrote:
(riflemen)
- They get destroyed mid to close range by Sturmpioneer for only 20 manpower more.
- Considering the delta in cost between them and Pioneer (80 manpower), they should perform the same ways vs pioneer as ST perform vs them, but that's not the case.
Pioneer don't get destroyed by riflemen even if they can't win otherwise nobody would use them to cover their HMG flank. I let you do the test, go in cheat mode place a RE behind yellow cover and rush it with a RM, then do it vs Pioneer and see what happen.
Hint, the 80 manpower difference shows its effect on the RM vs RE match, not the RM vs Pio.
Now, its just an example on why USF early game doesn't perform correctly, I'm not even saying RM vs Pio is problematic, I say the cost difference is problematic. RE, RM are not cost effective and associated to lack diversity in combat options and super slow teching design. |
I am not fully sure which wind up/down delay is applied when, but I am fairly certain that at least wind down comes after the actual shot.
I think the initial shot should not be later than 0.75 seconds taking aim time into account. Otherwise I would have missed that the Jackson would always take approximately teo seconds for the first shot. Don't think that this is the case
As Hannibal already pointed out, it's only the windup and aim times that are applied before a shot is fired, so there's only a ~0.75 s delay (0.5 windup + 0.125 fire aim + 0.125 ready aim) before the 1st shot. The aim times happen to be the same for almost every tank in the game (typically 1 frame), so the actual difference between, say, a Jackson and P4 firing is "just" 0.5 s. Now this can arguably be a lot in a firefight where split seconds can decide a winner, but it's still far off from 1.6 s.
Also note that windup/winddown only apply once per firing cycle, so they don't add up quite the way you suggested. A tank with 1 s windup, 1 s winddown and 3 s reload will have exactly the same ROF as a tank with zero windup/winddown and 5 s reload. The only difference would be that, if both were ordered to fire simultaneously, the tank with 1 s windup would always shoot 1 s later.
Yes, it makes sense. I didn't know how to count on the wind up and wind down, thanks for the explaination. At least its not so bad on paper.
Still the Jackson is the slowest alpha strike shooter because of that, I did some test yesterday and 90% of time it shoot its alpha strike around a second later than any other tank. This is something I saw in game (and the reason why I decided to dig in) because when you're forced into a slugfest between tanks even if you're in a slightly favored situation many time you can't capitalized on it because the M36 will not shot in time.
ie:
I've been in situation where the jackson just had to shoot but shot later than its target that had to roll its turret before shooting.
The second situation that is much more problematic is the incapacity to perform hit and run with it. Unless your in ideal situation at max range with vision on its target, the Jackson is working on one leg. Every time you'll show up to shot, you'll be shot first by any at source your opponent has in range, can be the same tank, can be another tank or an atgun, thing that you can avoid with other tanks doing the same action.
What I mean is that unless you're in ideal condition, which you'll never be because maps don't allow it, you're disadvantaged everytime with your jackson.
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Short answer: animations. Fixed windup & winddown delays are required to play these properly.
This might be a bit intransparent compared to weapons with "regular" reload delay between shots, but gameplay-wise I don't see any issue. The ROF of the Jackson or Panther is balanced with windup/winddown taken into consideration (also regarding vet and ability bonuses btw). Without it these vehicles would simply have a longer reload delay, leading to the same outcome.
I can understand that balance wise you want the Jackson to reload slower but since the alpha strike already come later by 1.6 seconds later this also add delay to the reload difference.
1st shot is 1.6 second later than other tanks, then 2nd shot is reload time + wind up wind down difference + those initial 1.6 second, 3rd shot etc...
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Medic crates for SP at Vet 0 were added like a hundred years ago, in the same patch that T70's HP was increased to 400, and SP vet buffs have nothing to do with the early game. You're literally pulling shit out of your ass. I had to scroll through to fucking 2017 to find the "recent OKW early game buffs" you're talking about.
Literal stats say Pioneers lose so badly to Riflemen that you're a complete joke of a human being. It's not a strawman to point out that you're barely capable of mouth-breathing.
Rifleman absolutely roflstomp Pioneers at any and every range. It's a 5 man squad which out-dpses Pioneers by 25% at 0-10 range, 200% at mid range, and 650% at long range while having 28% more effective HP and way lower DPS attrition. Pioneers literally only hurt because most players stand in knife distance for 10 seconds while trying to flank and kill an mg42.
Do I think REs suck? Yes, I hate them, and I wish they could at least build sandbags and lay real mines. I use them almost exclusively for wiring and back-capping until Zook duty.
Stawman one time, strawman evertime. I let you compare SP vs RE at close range and Riflemen vs Pioneer at close range. The difference isn't value the 20 manpower difference. |
Why is the Jackson the almost only tank with a wind up and down delay? The only other tank with it is the M10 (USF and UKF version).
It makes the Jacksons the slowest alpha strike firer. Even casemate tanks like the SU, Jagtiger or Elefant have a faster alpha strike.
Additionally even if the Jackson reload time is shorter than most of other tanks/tank destroyers, in reality it fire slower.
example
Pz4 Reload duration 5.3 - 5.7
M36 Reload duration 4.38 - 4.97
+
Wind up 0.5
Wind down 1.125
Since it seems the wind mechanism is also taken in account between each shot the Jackson fire slower and the Pz4 double it after the 6th/7th shot. I don't exactly know how the calculation is made but its easy to visualize in game.
The question is why does it have it?
Even the Elefant fire as fast as the Jackson when both vet3 and faster if you use the AP shell on the Jackson. |
I've played about 50 UKF 1v1s the past 2 months and got up to rank 9 UKF in 1v1. I can very confidently talk about the faction and how badly it does vs Ost. The Ostheer and JLI matchups is why people usually don't play UKF anymore.
Also Maxim > Vickers, idgaf what people think. Vickers is literal filth, no suppression whatsoever and literally useless once suppressed.
I don't know why you think Sextons aren't niche, everyone plays lend lease, commandos or hold the line docs high up in the ladder atm.
JLI is OP vs everything, but that nothing new. Only the modding team find them balanced. |
OKW early game was not buffed at all, what crack are you smoking? Starting manpower reduced, Volks cost increased compared to past patches.
I don't know how you can lose engagements so badly early game as USF. Pios absolutely get roflstomped completely at any and every range by Riflemen. Even when Pios come right around a hedge and engage at their ideal range they get stomped by Riflemen. Did you somehow confuse Pios and Ass Grenadiers?
Volks do lose significantly mid to close range. The problem is with Kubel causing lots of health damage and Sturms preventing easy close-ins, creating excellent synergy.
Grens do lose significantly mid to close range. The problem is that they have already dropped a rifle model or two from closing in. The bigger problem is with mg42. If you get one Rifle squad caught by the mg42 then your early game is pretty much game over.
Who say they lose so badly? Your just doing a strawman + personal insult as main argument, as usual shall I say.
I said they don't perform in their ideal condition as much as SP performs for the same or even larger price tag difference.
OKW early game has been buffed with medic crate, SP buffed and Kubel changes while, as I stated, volks received minimum nerfs. At the same time having enable so much T1 make OKW much more oppressive while back then when T2 was the get to go their early game was less.
RE nerf has just enable more the kubel dominance vs USF, and it was highlighted during the patch preview but put aside by the modding team to reach the situation we're facing today, RE are neither good vs infantry or Kubel. Their bad at everything for an expensive price. |