Profile of Esxile

I disagree its a huge backstep, they perform very well given the immense tool set they possess. Grenades, mortars and fighting positions should allow you to hold your ground against any early game aggression whiel you transition into the mid game.

I'm not really asking how to beat them, but that super early game is a disavantage for USF by a consequent marging. You can't always just cap everywhere and let the Ostheer establish himself in the middle of your cutoff. Having an early mortar isn't an advantage if it does jack shit except smoking the HMG when needed and unlocking grenade that early, is it a real suggestion or a joke?

I think the OKW flares get a bad rap because they are cheap, come early, last a long time and can be triggered through FoW without using any units.

If OKW flares was an ability given to volks or something I doubt thered be complaints.

So true

since vanilla release the field has been filled with infantry tank snare. The game started with faust, at nade, and guard button, and now it's still the same faust, and at nade. The addition of the other faction didn't change matter. If it's not volks faust it's going to be gren faust. If it's not conscript at nade it's going to be rifle at nade.

and the snare have gotten nerf, since they require a knock down to 75% to cause a engine damage.

in short, at snare is not the issue here.

In coh2 there have been three medium tanks that have seen regular use. The panzer4, the t34/85, and the cromwell (before the nerf anyway).


I believe the key factor in the viability of the t34/85 and cromwell are their survivability.

The effect of the t34/85's 800 hp is self explanatory.

The cromwell, meanwhile was the first allied medium to be actually faster than the panther. This contribute heavily to the cromwell's survivability as they could consistently escape panther. Warspeed is as much of a escape tool as it is a flanking tool.

secondly was the cromwell's small size of 18. This provide the cromwell a second form of defense against the TD. This is also why I believe tank destroyer should be less accurate.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/69042/tank-destroyers-should-be-less-accurate

And yet you barely see any Cromwell on the field today.

You have to understand that mediums, TDs and heavies are sharing the same resource: fuel. So if you invest into several mediums you better get a good return on your investment because this means you are not going to get any heavy tank soon (if you have some on your loadout) and you are not going to get any TD soon as well.

So the question is, how will you make this investment returning anything good if you opponent can shut you down with a pair of pak or cheap (SU-76 / Stug) TDs with snare support.
Here we are not in a situation where even if your infantry squad is suppressed by an HMG, you can hit the retreat button, reinforce and come back. Nop, being snared (which is equivalent of suppression) is usually a death blow for your tank and fuel investment.
And then, after a certain time, your mediums are getting outclassed by the heavies your opponent was saving his fuel for.

At vanilla start, the game wasn't balance at all, it reach that balance state just before Western Front release. So it is difficult to tell if medium tank war was balance and viable at that time.

What is interesting today is Axis is much more using their medium tanks today because they are far more powerful in the actual meta.
Ostheer Pz4/Stug/P4 Command tank combo have a great survivability thanks to the P4 aura and doctrinal smoke from the same commanders, great dps vs other mediums (stug) and good dps vs infantry.
OKW Pz4 is a beast vs infantry with a native good armor making it difficult for Allied medium tanks to pierce it and the Jpz4 is the best medium tank counter in game taken as a single unit which also at the same time counter Allied TDs.

As you see the most important factor is the survivabilty both factions have for their mediums, Snares have much less effect to them.
Ostheer because of 20% more health and smoke to disengage.
OKW because you much pen that armor first and then not being wiped while trying to get it snared...

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Please do not believe I'm complaining about what I just wrote, I'm just stating why the medium tank meta is actually much more viable for the Axis faction than Allied one.

Then don't build mediums against a panther, and instead stay at range with a TD and make the panther either A) back off or B) make him come to you.

That's exactly what people do, thus you open a thread to complain that panther has no use.

Panther counter medium and heavy tanks.

1- Nobody use medium tank enough to make the panther useful except on 4vs4
2- Nobody use heavy tank to make the panther useful except on 4vs4

Then you've got two solutions imo
1- Or you make the medium tank play meta which require a lot of changes on many units, mostly likely to be impossible today
2- or you change the panther to be something else than a tank hunter, kind of EZ8 maybe. Problem there is already the Tiger in that role. And he'll still face the same counters.

Against USF or UKF?

Sherman or Cromwell heavy play but since the stug already shut them down, there isn't a real need for the Panther atm.
Perhsing and Comet.

But let's be honest, the Stug shutdown anything on wheel today so the panther is simply redundant. I mean you'll never have the panther as much as cost effective as the Stug unless making it blatantly OP. Note that I'm not calling for a Stug nerf, I simply think the Panther is out of design.