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Thread: Stuart is the worst armored unit in the game, by far.11 Jun 2022, 11:25 AM Jump back to quoted post11 Jun 2022, 09:02 AMEtherealDragon I would say Puma would be the axis Stuart. It's a little different - less AI, better at long range exchanges and I would say scales better against mediums but it's the same thing where it stomps LVs but it's not a no-brainer buy because of the fuel investment and it might not equate to map control unless you are losing map control due to LVs. I would say most people would say Puma isn't bad but you don't see a ton of them. You just describe what a premium is. USF has no premium LVs because you're supposed to use them as part of your regular build, they are not premium, they are... regular. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Stuart is the worst armored unit in the game, by far.11 Jun 2022, 08:47 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2022, 18:04 PMBasedSecretary absolutely not. zero to none ai and you sacrifice heal truck plus mg plus mortar for this pile of shitcan. unless you are getting pummeled by a t70 (which you should not, given that you have t0 rak) or a AAHT there is 0 sense in getting it. if you want a decent lv, yu can try 251 from hp truck What does it have to do with the Puma being the premium LV in the game? In term of stat, its superior to any other. The M8 has been nerfed to what it is today because it was superior to it. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Stuart is the worst armored unit in the game, by far.10 Jun 2022, 05:39 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2022, 18:23 PMEtherealDragon +1 To me Stuart is just the "I don't want to deal with LVs so I'm going to overkill them with light tank" unit. The fuel premium you spend on it is just a risk/reward on how much map control you wrestle back as a result of forcing your opponent(s) to be more conservative with their LVs. If you don't get more control than you otherwise would w/o Stuart then it's not worth it. Don't know stats offhand but I think Stuart and Greyhound main gun are roughly the same AI potential wise. Greyhound's DPS superiority is all pintle and cheeky canister rounds. So in that way Stuart isn't terrible but certainly not worth it if it isn't primarily being used to reign in LVs. IMO But USF isn't supposed to be the lv faction? To me the premium lv in this game is the puma, not the stuart. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Pioneer combat strength early game8 Jun 2022, 10:29 AM Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2022, 10:09 AMFelixTHM How about if USF started with a Riflemen and -80mp instead? Like Brits, starting with a mainline isn't the craziest idea. Lol yes, let me USF early game OP as solution. USF starts with 400mp, -80 would do nothing. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Pioneer combat strength early game7 Jun 2022, 07:23 AM Riflemen and Rear echelon are overpriced and get their value from overpriced upgrades. There are 80 manpower difference between riflemen and pioneer, this should be a no match in every single way but nope. You know what's a no match in every single way? Grenadier vs Rear echelon, close/mid/long range doesn't matter, Rear Echelon will always badly lose. And that's fine because there a 40 manpower gap plus grenadier being mainline infantry and Rear Echelon being an utility unit. So why wouldn't it be the same for riflemen vs pioneer? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: USF Faction Redesign 4 Jun 2022, 09:20 AM USF doesn't need a X time redesign, just having their unit being relevant. Imo there 2 different ways to bring USF back to the game. 1st solution - Buff Riflemen around their native RA. At the moment they look like better volks than semi elite infantry falling hard on the mid-to-late game. Buffing their RA would make them more relevant on the move and increase their staying power without killing faster. But I don't think buffing riflemen would be the right choice. It could lead the faction into old riflespam. The core issue with USF is its high reliance on RNG to works, their units have high damage but only if RNG let them. 2nd solution - Buff a set of units in their roster that are at the moment not bringing much. 1. M20. the unit is bad at killing infantry when it hit the field and only become relevant once vet2. Buff its killing power so it become a bleeding machine from the get to go. 2. HMG.50. Make it so it finally suppress correctly. 3. AAHT. Increase it suppress and suppression radius so it becomes a real blob control unit. 4. Atgun. Put back the take aim as free and native vet1. 5. Sherman HE. Increase its accuracy and decrease the AOE so it hit more consistently, the unit should scare infantry but todau that's not the case. An infantry unit shouldn't be able to stand in front of it more than 3 shots. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OP vs ez mode?3 Jun 2022, 16:40 PM Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2022, 14:59 PMHannibal As I said, I highly doubt that Relic had a better balance towards micro than the balance team had. The balance team has done a LOT towards consistency. Vehicles for example usually got armor reduced and HP increased. These changes also reduce the overall micro load. However, I'd rather move back to the overall topic of how micro affects balance in a not-so-obvious way. We can surely have different opinions who is the scapegoat of the current issue, in the end it is futile since Coh2 does not get updated anymore and we'll have to wait for CoH3 to maybe do a better job. The various balance teams, I could trust MrSmith in his ideal of balance, not Sanders. To me the balance was great around the moment Relic let the first balance team take over, then it went down. I know that, and yet it is still the best data we have. Definitely better than purely anecdotal evidence. But still, my last point stands regardless of win rate data: Axis factions are easier to micro, because they have less units on the field. The current mix of cost/population and performance is very well on point for most units in CoH2 thanks to the community patches, but having to take care of more squads means every unit will be managed less efficiently, and that's were late game Axis shines a bit brighter than late game Allies. Major Arnold Ernst Toht and his fellow Nazi friends would have to have a word with you about the best data you have and the assumption you're doing with. From what I remember, Sanders always said tournaments should be taken with a big grain of salt for balance discussions. Which is exactly on point. The fact that Soviets and Ostheer dominate tournaments is still Relic's fuck up. Especially USF and UKF play very linearly and predictably with little deviation and easy exploits. Especially if your opponent can counter pick a faction. From years of experience, we started seeing USF/OKW vanish from final tournament games when he and his fellow mates took the lead on the balance. Last USF stand was with the WC51 but it was an anomaly. Evidently their approach of balance unit per unit base and not faction wide cannot work since 2 of 5 factions are designed with gaps but it is easier to say it's Relic's fault cuz Relic stopped communicating. They've just abused the Khrushchev letters method. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OP vs ez mode?2 Jun 2022, 16:43 PM Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2022, 16:04 PMHannibal The question is not if it brought result, the question is if they really fixed it. How I understand your post is that Relic initially screwed up, then fixed it, then balance team screwed it up again. But to be honest, judging by Relic's patch and balance history as well as what they allowed and not allowed for community patches, I highly doubt Relic really fixed the issue. Some improvement, surely, but not more than that. Ostheer units were always designed for highly specialized and powerful units. Tanks like the Panther and P4 were always higher in population than their Soviet/Allied in general counter parts. This means that Axis always had less units on the field, even during Relic patching. This is obviously only one factor for micro, but it is also meant to illustrate why I don't believe Relic ever fixed it. Balance isn't an on/off technology. Relic did acknowledge the skill gap issue between faction and aimed toward resolving it by reducing the skill requirement for some faction and increasing it for other and at least taking it in account every time they release a new patch . This got lost in translation years later with the succession of community members doing the balance and I my opinion especially (but not only) around the last new commanders patches and those after. What's more A-move than Grand offensive commander? OP's post is not about the balance of one unit. In my eyes the buff was generally a good one, but that topic is very very specific and not really the scope of this thread. Judging by PageP's stats, the even buff to Grenadiers is not an issue. 1v1 is slightly biased towards Allies, 2v2 and 3v3 overall pretty balanced, 4v4 is biased for Axis. If Ostheer were OP due to both having both good infantry and tanks, we should see it in all modes. But we only see it in 4v4, which can be either due to the maps or the player pool. I obviously have no more data than anyone else, but I assume it is the player pool. 4v4 is the mode that is being played by your average Joes that dig up CoH2 for a game or two on the weekend. So Axis factions are either synergize better once you reach 4 players, or they are easier for beginners. And I assume that micro is probably the biggest factor here, because that's what limits beginners the most: Being able to control and coordinate multiple units at once. PageP's stat don't say anything about balance because you don't know the real gap between players, it just shows the win/lose ratio, the rest is interpretation. If you want to go that way you'll have to demonstrate that TOP200 faction A = TOP200 faction B but you can't. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OP vs ez mode?2 Jun 2022, 15:01 PM Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2022, 12:03 PMHannibal I am not quite sure which time frame you are talking about. I played CoH2 only against bots for quite a while and did not care much about unit balance, so I probably missed it. But you are raising two in my opinion different issues. There is no connection between Relic acknowledging an issue and the balance team having their vision. Acknowledging an issue is not fixing it. Judging by my memory and Relic's general behaviour in balance patches, I highly doubt they ever fixed the issue of different micromanaging levels. Especially since this Soviets=cheap an numerous, Ostheer=expensive and outnumbered was Relics own design. Axis having high value/high population units compared to Soviets was also never fixed under Relic's patches. The Grenadier issue you bring up is exaggerated in my opinion, but is also a singular issue. No doubt late game Grenadiers are less micro intensive than Riflemen, but at the time the damage reduction was introduced there was also no doubt that Grenadiers were very weak in the late game and needed a buff in that direction. Anyway, I don't think this would be a larger issue if Axis tanks required more micro, but they don't. And that is what my suggestion was aiming at: If your infantry is already "low maintenance", your tanks should require more input. I don't remember the exact timeframe either but yes it occured, they took actions to reduce the skill gap required to play every faction at the same level and I can tell you it brought result because it was my feeling at that time. Grenadier's late game issue is a symptome of balance failure. Ostheer was designed around weak mainline infantry and strong late game tanks to where we are today: strong mainline infantry and strong tanks. And if my memory is correct this change was applied because arty shells wiped them with ease. So yeah today I can't remember the last time I saw a ML20 or priest on 2vs2 vs Ostheer but what I know is that tanks have harder time dealing with them while Axis armor still fence Allied's one like butter. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: When you have a konig you are invincible31 May 2022, 19:09 PM Jump back to quoted post31 May 2022, 17:13 PMBasedSecretary Half-true half-not is the essence of what you write. In order for one to get a KT in a timely and effective manner, three miracles have to happen: You must not lose too much of your army in order to be able to tech appropriately. That may sound trivial due to OKW supposedly having terminator units, but in all actuality that's not completely true. You must effectively skip the early Heal Truck -> Schwere meta and subsequent PanzerIVJ in order to give the third tech truck time and room to build. You have to build 720mp and 270fuel at the same time your opponent is at its deadliest: T34s/85, M4Cs, Cromwells. The Raketen helps ofcourse at this but overall it's ridiculously hard. So in the big picture, Kongigstgiger is at the perfectest place as a legendary unit that can turn the tide. If there was not the Spearhead mechanic I would dare call it the perfect unit. Right now, it's the perfect OP unit. There no need to rush it, you get it and that's it. In: COH2 Balance