I have to repeat myself since people still don't get it. Anyone who thinks that custom commanders would be released without some ways to limit ability combinations really, really needs to get their head checked.
And no, it wouldn't be just CP based, that would be daft. Rarity is one possible candidates but there are so many ways to go about this that it is trivial to design a system that will be guaranteed to NOT result in more impact than certain commanders already have on the meta.
Are you guys honestly saying that there would be a possibility for imbalanced doctrines? THEY ARE ALREADY INSANELY IMBALANCED BETWEEN EACH OTHER! Rifle company / Recon Support? Shock Rifle Frontline vs Defensive? The only reason people aren't up in arms over that is that each faction has enough affordable quality commanders that it doesn't matter the other 80% are shite.
If you guys are concerned about single-commander meta I'd like to say we are pretty much already living in a very limited meta. Roughly 80% of OCF Wehr play was Mechanized Assault and the other 80% would've been Rifle company if they hadn't been banned. |
No matter how much you buff the ML20 it will not be useful until its relationship to offmaps is changed.
Give the Stuka dive bomb 0.2 damage modifier versus static artillery (the gun, not the crew). There are target tables in the game now, so it can be done.
Static artillery emplacements are already vulnerable to literally everything short of Rear Echelons that gets into range. Howies should punish an enemy for camping and make him want to attack it at close range.
However, currently they punish the person who built it. Currently I consider the ML20 a sort of a "resource conversion" ability that exchanges 600 of your manpower to drain the enemy of 160 ammo .
Before balancing it, I want to know what it feels like to have an ML20 up for longer than 20 seconds after the first barrage in team games. The prevalence of Stuka dive bomb doctrines is the primary culprit. This makes the ML20 a really binary choice. It is not countered, but rather ULTRA hard countered by any sort of offmap. I don't think there is any other ability that is so dependent on enemy commander choices. There is no counterplay, nothing. Just one click negation of a 600MP unit.
Maybe, without offmaps taking it out, I could live with the rng and the scatter, if I could use it to consistently barrage the map.
Tweak other offmaps and the LeFH, if you must, of course. I don't care. |
Anyone who thinks that custom commanders would be released without some ways to limit ability combinations really, really needs to get their head checked.
It's comparable to saying "hey guys, this faction can build Panthers, Jagdpanzers and Kingtigers nondoctrinally, AND have a Jagdtiger call-in. How will I deal with all those heavy tanks on the field at once???"
Btw some leaked strings from 3 patches ago imply abilities for customs would come from a separate, limited pool, where none were gamebreaking.
Also how do we know this was abandoned and where does this image come from? |
You are comparing a dedicated TD to a generalist medium tank. Yes, and the StuG is a much more useful vehicle all around because the T34/76 can't hit infantry for shit. Hell, with the mounted MG upgrade the StuG will at least deal SOME consistent DPS vs infantry. And to be honest mate you are living in the past su76's jacksons and fireflies have no problem taking heavies head on from a large distance. Where did I mention heavy tanks in my post?
Look, it is obvious you find the T34/76 a good tank and that it shouldn't be changed, a stance which the current state of the game overwhelmingly fails to support. I see Cromwells, Shermans, and Panzers all the time, even in large team games.
Keep mudding the issue with nonexistent quotes (still waiting to see where I said anything about heavy tanks) and the Su-76, avoid talking about the T34 all you want, T34/76 is dead. It's kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bloody choir invisible. That is an ex medium tank. Other mediums also exist in a meta full of tank destroyers but somehow are still used in the meta. But T34 is fine. |
Once again this unit is not a bad tank and its very cheap and cost effective for a medium tank. Wow I suppose we have all been using this unit wrong all this time, I mean the T34/76 threatens to outright dominate the meta with its cost effectiveness, here I thought the T34/76 sucked but it turns out it doesn't at all, through the power of sheer will that it be true.
Though after all this salt I will even grudgingly admit that the T34 might only SEEM crappier than it is because it is up against superiour armour and Schreck wielding infantry all the goddamn time.
Compare StuG III for something nearer to T34's pricetag than a P4 and tell me they have comparable performance.
I don't care what people say, Schrecks are such a huge source of assymetry that it isn't even funny. I am not saying they are OP or anything, I am saying they introduce a new factor into Allied armour equation that Axis just doesn't even have to worry about. The problem is, Allies are supposed to be the flanking faction against the superiour Krupp steel (at least that's how the game was designed), but any Allied flank is like 60% guaranteed to earn a warm Schreck + PaK welcome. This affects all the Allied tanks, but T34/76 has such lackluster performance against infantry that enemy squads, which should be its natural prey, just laugh at it most of the time (if it hits, it hits for good damage and occasional squadwipe, but such inconsistency and RNGesus based gameplay is just frustrating for both parties). |
Bloody hell people. The t-34 has 30 less armour 4 less dps and 20 les penetration at long range. its far from shit. Those stats are in comparison to PzIV? If so, please take into account scatter values and accuracy as well, and AoE (which is what kills infantry). Also consider that in most tank engagements both tanks will be moving, therefore include the movement penalty.
The t34 also sits at the top of the tech tree, whereas the Panzer is T3.
But okay, if armour and pen numbers are what you wish to base your balance arguments around exclusively, I suppose you could do that. |
Seconding doctrinal T34/76, that would be awesome.
I would love to see it played more as the Osttruppen of tanks. Make it a unique thing where you can get 2 for 550MP/150F or, if one dares to dream, three for 720MP/200F. Getting a single 34/76 never solved anything except chasing off light vehicles and providing XP to Volksgrenadiers.
The idea is, if you give a bonus/incentive to get more (through cheapness via "opportunity cost" of getting two or even three at once) you suddenly provide them a role - cheap, spammable armour that ALWAYS comes in packs (thematically appropriate), which in numbers can theoretically threaten other medium and heavy armour.
In this arrangement you could have them a call-in at 9CPs not tied to tech (consider them the Soviet variant of a "heavy" call-in), or, if you want them kept non-doctrinal, the double / triple tanks could now freely be moved to T3 as a buildable "bundle", because their arrival time would be gated by the high-ish fuel cost of the entire group.
Tl;dr make T34/76s the Zerglings of tanks. Build from T3 (or doctrinal call-in), in packs 2 or even 3 at once at a discount, keep the crappy stats. Fits theme, gives them a role, avoids homogenization, makes for hilarious gameplay. |
Yeah let's not dump everything on Sega here, I distinctly remember the Commisar Cache preorder bonus while under THQ that gave you double XPs which sounded eerily like something World of Tanks and other free-to-play-but-pay-to-not-grind games would do. |
It's not free. You're paying MP and Fuel for it. This argument sort of sounds like having your cake and eating it too. If Royal Engies are what you pay for by researching Hammer, does that mean that Churchill unlock, Airburst shells and increased LOS around points come free of charge?
No. Hammer is already useful, and would arguably be useful even if it unlocked Churchills alone (as a sort of a T4 building for Brits).
You pay manpower and fuel not for Heavy Engineers, but for an entire array of stuff varying from not very useful to insanely useful (Churchill unlock, Heavy Engies unlock). Considering what you get for the upgrade, it is not really fair to justify everything the Heavy Engineers do with "Hammer costs fuel and manpower". Well, so does Battle Phase III, which gives nothing to Grenadiers, Pioniere, or PzGrens.
I would pay good ammo per squad for the insane repair ability alone, and count myself lucky.
|
The names hahahah omg
I am cringing as well reading most of those.
However, I've swallowed Obersoldaten (Imagine if the US had an infantry unit called "Corporals"), I've swallowed the Sturmpioniere escorted with a Sturmoffizier going to their Sturmwalk in their little Sturmboots, so I am sure over time I will learn to live with the HEILIGE HELLSTURMSTORM DOCTRINE OF THE NINE IGNEOUS HELLS and Porcupine hunter company. |