Grens UP & G43s suck

Why does rifleman getting a buff mean that grens have to get one? Infantry sections got nerfed, I don't see you complaining about that?

I don't need to elaborate on why g43 grens are good, several people here have already talked about it

It's nice to keep things fair. If your opponent gets a buff you should too in order to keep the balance. Also this thread is about grens, not infantry sections.

One of my main points has been, that I'm okay with g43s being the way they are when it comes to their performance, but then they should be available more earlier in order to compete with lmg or 5 men grenadier upgrades as a choice.

The reason I asked you to elaborate was that the only arguments that g43s had in comparison to 5 men grens have been: "Oh they are really good, great, fantastic. They also deal more damage on the move!" Well no one likes to further explain when is it better to have a glass cannon 4 man squad with inferior close range capabilities compared to those available for the opponent at 2CP timings, enclose and engage the enemy making use of this dps on the move? And when would this be better option than having 5 men grens or LMGs ? If you can advance on your enemy resulting in favourable trade in MP or map control then you probably in that situation would have also been able to achieve the same if not better results with LMG- or 5 men grens.

You just talked about a rifleman change that was aimed at volks... Stop being a hypocrite

Stop playing stupid, RIFLEMEN SHORT RANGE BUFF WAS MENT TO FIGHT OFF VOLKS. That is not offtopic mr no no
and you brought that up.

It's nice to keep things fair. If your opponent gets a buff you should too in order to keep the balance. Also this thread is about grens, not infantry sections.

Yes Im aware what the thread is about. You just compared them to rifles, and that's ontopic, but I.S. magically aren't? Why?

You don't get to magically decide that one squad is offtopic but another isn't. Neither of them are in the title

My point is this. If you're saying grens need a buff to mirror rifleman buff, won't that make tommies to UP? They just got nerfed, and now you're saying to buff grens because of rifleman buff? Why aren't you applying the same logic between grens and tommies that you are with grens and rifleman?

Stop playing stupid, RIFLEMEN SHORT RANGE BUFF WAS MENT TO FIGHT OFF VOLKS.
That is not offtopic mr no no

This thread is about grens and g43s... If Infantry sections "are offtopic" then so is that, its not hard to understand

and you brought that up.

No I didn't. Actually try reading other posts for once instead of jumping in just to fight me. You might someday make a meaningful contribution if you do that instead of skipping over the entire thread:

-How is it okay from ostheer standpoint that RM receive small buff to enhance their close combat ability in early game but grens do not deserve a mirroring buff to their role?

Then I responded. I did not start the comparison with other infantry...

This thread is about grens and g43s... If Infantry sections are offtopic so is that, its not hard to understand

I started the thread by acknowledging that the RM buff was done in a response to OKW. I'm in no position to tell you that you can't bring up sections as an effective counterargument to giving small buff to grenadiers, don't you think that I have not given though to that also? That's why I first suggested a decrease in build time and then "more radical change" in form of mirroring buff. Of course UKF in it's current form would need to be worked on because the USF is now the clearly best choice allied side have. It does not matter from where you start to fix the situation, as long as you start working on it and I chose to approach this from the ostheer side.

AS a thought experiment if we would push the SOV and UKF faction beside for a moment assuming they'll get what they deserve in order to make them balanced compared to other factions: What's wrong with what I'm proposing as a response to RM getting a small buff in order to balance things out?

Okay well that's an error on Relic's part then. His numbers were not off. This also has nothing to do with grens

I would also love to know what you said to me that the mods decided needed to go....

Edit: Also I misread your 2nd sentence, which is incorrect. It definitely unlocks with t4, has for me multiple times

The listing is patch notes is Relic's mistake, you trying to correct me with out checking the stats when I specifically pointed there was an error, is all on you.

ooootto92 do not feed the troll.

It doesnt take more than 2 functioning brain cells to figure out what is offtopic and what is not. IS nerf was ment to adjust UKF performance, specially bolstered IS.

Back on topic, RM buff was intended (if it was not mentioned by the devs) to make clearer who should win close range engagements between volks and RM, because as everyone here said before, grens were already beaten by RM at that range (therefore no need to further increase the advantage)

IMO Grens do not require any sort of buff on their G43 for this reason, their individual performance is OK too, if you see RM you need MG42s and teamweapons instead.

The nerve of some people to do unreal mental gimnastics should not derail your point. But not everyone knows how to politely disagree and explain straightfordwardly why.

I always try to perceive people as having different motives behind their argument. I don't believe SkysTheLimit is trolling, rather that he failed to understand where I was coming with all of this and his point is valid, buffing grens would impact IS but as Relic chose to approach the balance between OKW and UKF by buffing UKF instead of nerfing OKW now all the other factions need to be adjusted accordingly to this, first in line being ostheer.

BUT I would have loved to hear more from him or anyone about my questions regarding the G43s

you trying to correct me with out checking the stats when I specifically pointed there was an error, is all on you.

I did check the stats. The stats said 40. It's not clear which is one is intended

As was pointed out to you, you weren't even correct either. The upgrade does unlock at t4, so....

ooootto92 do not feed the troll

Don't speak other people's minds for them. How about that. As usual you got it wrong

I always try to perceive people as having different motives behind their argument. I don't believe SkysTheLimit is trolling, rather that he failed to understand where I was coming with all of this and his point is valid, buffing grens would impact IS but as Relic chose to approach the balance between OKW and UKF by buffing UKF instead of nerfing OKW now all the other factions need to be adjusted accordingly to this, first in line being ostheer.

BUT I would have loved to hear more from him or anyone about my questions regarding the G43s

Yup, not trolling you at all. Just pointing out that it goes both ways with mainline balance. Distrofio has a personal vendetta against me, idk what his/her problem is

G43 grens are great on the move. The are very map dependant though, and choosing them on wrong map definitely can hurt

It always happen that when devs try to balance Faction X vs Faction Y they always do collateral damage to the rest ones. More often than not that is intended, otherwise subsequent patches will undo what got changed.

But even when devs explicitly say "we nerf X because (reason)" you always find people misjudging and twisting arguments, because they dont like their faction receiving a nerf.

On top of that many people prefer many buffs instead of a single well placed nerf, or single buffs instead of many minor nerfs. Thats why volks/penals overperform and dont get adjusted.

At least now IS and RM are in line.

Final words on the topic, i would like more to see Jaeger command squad as an early G43 gren squad, maybe put that squad instead of the G43. Otherwise if G43 comes earlier it should be more expensive. You cant nerf G43 because if you do, Pgren G43 will be a downgrade

This logic of being spanked already at that range makes no sense, should we buff obers to have more long range dps cause they already beat rifle at that range ?

This logic of being spanked already at that range makes no sense, should we buff obers to have more long range dps cause they already beat rifle at that range ?

Does long range = close range? Notice how Riflemen have to cross through grens advantage in order to get to theirs...

Change obers for any close range unit, u get my point

Change obers for any close range unit, u get my point

Sort of. It's still only a slight buff to close range dps. The curve just changed, but ranges 0-3 it's still the same dps

So saying it as "straight dps buff" is misleading

Does long range = close range? Notice how Riflemen have to cross through grens advantage in order to get to theirs...

Some players do know that smoke curtains exists. Just saying.

Sort of. It's still only a slight buff to close range dps. The curve just changed, but ranges 0-3 it's still the same dps

So saying it as "straight dps buff" is misleading

dude, it is a straight dps buff, for the ranges above it

Easy example, if we made shocks close dps range 35 it would be a straight buff for mid and long range