Alright then, since you've missed the point like cons used to miss targets, I'll help you:
If you actually want to rely on cons, you have to get all the upgrades as you can't relay on waiting for T4 without elites.
Ignoring manpower costs, you're looking at ~40 fuel investment, which in 1v1 and 2v2 can translate to more then 2 minutes of waiting, depending on map control, which means your armor will arrives that much more later or at the same time if you trade T70 for M5.
If you want to relay on cons and not be base locked at mid game, you have to rush 7th man and can't afford waiting for T4, contrary to falls, who will always have access to their upgrade without any kind of additional costs on top of what you normally do.
Its really not that hard to understand, so its beyond me why you struggle so much.
Grens UP & G43s suck
1 Oct 2019, 14:09 PM
#44
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Oct 2019, 14:13 PM
#45
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Ignoring manpower costs, you're looking at ~40 fuel investment, which in 1v1 and 2v2 can translate to more then 2 minutes of waiting,...
Check your numbers they are off.
1 Oct 2019, 14:16 PM
#46
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Check your numbers they are off.
???
Molly's+AT nade+7 man sidetech is definitely 40 fuel
10+10+20
________
Grens are fine, and g43 grens do not suck
1 Oct 2019, 14:36 PM
#48
Posts: 1351
They also can't do anything on their own without doctrinal dedication or massive fuel investments, most significant one being gated very late contrary to all other infantries.
Do you want grens to have more abilities at the cost of being impotent in combat unless you pick specific doctrine or are at mid/late game?
That is exactly the description of grens. Effective only behind cover (that they can't build themselves) or/and with mg 42 support. Can't deal dmg on the move, 4 man etc.
(I play 1v1 mainly)
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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1 Oct 2019, 14:37 PM
#49
Posts: 177
Grens are fine, and g43 grens do not suck
Can you elaborate more on this so we can return the thread back to its origin from this 7man cons conversation that has it's own thread btw ?
-How is it okay from ostheer standpoint that RM receive small buff to enhance their close combat ability in early game but grens do not deserve a mirroring buff to their role?
-in what 1v1 map are 4 man g43s better option at 2CP timing than 5man grens?
Thank you in advance
1 Oct 2019, 14:38 PM
#50
Posts: 1351
Please list here all the steps needed for 7th man if you want to have it as fast as possible.
My point would be to allow grens build sanbags after some teching, for example. Give them utility related to fuel investment, why not. Just like cons' 7th model.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
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1 Oct 2019, 14:40 PM
#51
Posts: 2358
Would you not agree that at this point in the hands of adept player g43s have already lost time to shine and LMGs offer better value? My main suggestion was to make g43s available at earlier timing, lets say after you've gotten your 3rd grenadier out. This way the g43s could act as an early powerspike (sacrificing late game performance) before transitioning to the combined arms when the LMGs are better option anyways.
LMG and grens have more synergy, by design, thats why its so efficient. On the other side, G43 are meant to give grens what they lack, on the move DPS. It makes grens pseudo pzgrenadiers with snares.
I would agree that timings have changed but i dont with using G43s as a powerspike, there are already the new Pzgrenadiers in T2 for that, otherwise is as simple as spam grens and then upgrade them, volks style.
1 Oct 2019, 14:48 PM
#52
Posts: 177
I would agree that timings have changed but i dont with using G43s as a powerspike, there are already the new Pzgrenadiers in T2 for that, otherwise is as simple as spam grens and then upgrade them, volks style.
The issue I'm having with pgrens as powerspike is the 340mp cost, where as g43s only cost muni. If I wanted to use 340MP at 2CP timing to receive powerspike unit I already have a superior option in form of selecting a commander in my roster with Storms that outperform pgrens, rather than having a guy with g43s.
1 Oct 2019, 15:23 PM
#53
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
-How is it okay from ostheer standpoint that RM receive small buff to enhance their close combat ability in early game but grens do not deserve a mirroring buff to their role?
Why does rifleman getting a buff mean that grens have to get one? Infantry sections got nerfed, I don't see you complaining about that?
I don't need to elaborate on why g43 grens are good, several people here have already talked about it
1 Oct 2019, 15:34 PM
#54
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
???
Molly's+AT nade+7 man sidetech is definitely 40 fuel
10+10+20
Conscript's Mobilize Reserves is definitely not 40, it is 45.
1 Oct 2019, 15:37 PM
#55
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Conscript's Mobilize Reserves is definitely not 40, it is 45.
Conscripts Mobilize Reserves - 7th man upgrade
Can be purchased once Tankoviy Battalion Command is deployed for 100 manpower and 20 fuel; requires Molotov and AT Grenade tech to be researched.
Molotov Package Upgrade
The Molotov package upgrade cost has been reduced to improve their accessibility
Molotov Package from 125/15 to 80/10
Conscript AT Grenade Package
Due to Conscripts requiring expensive side-tech to fufill one of their primary roles as a utility unit, we are reducing the fuel cost of AT Grenades.
Fuel cost from 25 to 10.
Idk what your source is, but according to patchnotes you are wrong
1 Oct 2019, 15:39 PM
#56
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Conscripts Mobilize Reserves - 7th man upgrade
Can be purchased once Tankoviy Battalion Command is deployed for 100 manpower and 20 fuel; requires Molotov and AT Grenade tech to be researched.
Idk what your source is, but according to patchnotes you are wrong
Load the game you will see that it is 25.
(
1 Oct 2019, 15:42 PM
#57
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Load the game you will see that 25.
You will also see that contrary to the patch notes it is not automatically unlock with t4.
Okay well that's an error on Relic's part then. His numbers were not off. This also has nothing to do with grens
I would also love to know what you said to me that the mods decided needed to go....
Edit: Also I misread your 2nd sentence, which is incorrect. It definitely unlocks with t4, has for me multiple times
1 Oct 2019, 15:44 PM
#58
Posts: 783
Load the game you will see that it is 25.
You will also see that contrary to the patch notes it is not automatically unlock with t4.
It auto unlocks for me, and I've been playing almost exclusively soviets since the patch dropped.
1 Oct 2019, 15:50 PM
#59
Posts: 2358
Why does rifleman getting a buff mean that grens have to get one? Infantry sections got nerfed, I don't see you complaining about that?
Simple, RM buffs are aimed towards volks, not grens. Therefore a mirror buff is a good solution.
IS are offtopic, dont derail the conversation
1 Oct 2019, 15:56 PM
#60
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Simple, RM buffs are aimed towards volks, not grens. Therefore a mirror buff is a good solution.
Actually no, this make no sense at all. Grens already got spanked by rifles at the range of the buff, so nothing has really changed. Therefore "mirror" buffing them is a horrible idea
IS are offtopic, dont derail the conversation
You just talked about a rifleman change that was aimed at volks... Stop being a hypocrite
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