Flare rework proposal

It gives the WHOLE GOD DAMN FRONTLINE and that doctrine also has shitloads of arti + offmap.

I didn't say it was weak, I said it's impact is less than being able to highlight exactly what/where you want.
Light g up the front line doesn't help you know what's behind the front line. 1 flare exactly where you need it is better than 10 where you don't.

Who need to light up the whole god damm frontline if what i need is to gain sight on a god damm howitzer in your god damm base's door.

It scouts easily any flanking maneuver. IIRC it also reveals camo'ed units

It scouts easily any flanking maneuver. IIRC it also reveals camo'ed units

I didn't said it is bad, but not as good and practical as okw flare.

I dont really like to annoy people posting again things, but

What about making all flares give the IRHT vision mechanism? It doesnt reveal FoW, it just highlights units inside a circular area for a limited amount of time.

I dont really like to annoy people posting again things, but

What about making all flares give the IRHT vision mechanism? It doesnt reveal FoW, it just highlights units inside a circular area for a limited amount of time.

It will be lest broken, but at the same time overlap with IRHT, which also need to be removed, i'm against map hack, especially stock map hack.

I dont really like to annoy people posting again things, but

What about making all flares give the IRHT vision mechanism? It doesnt reveal FoW, it just highlights units inside a circular area for a limited amount of time.

Wouldnt this risk causing the same bugs the IRHT vision does?

I dont really like to annoy people posting again things, but

What about making all flares give the IRHT vision mechanism? It doesnt reveal FoW, it just highlights units inside a circular area for a limited amount of time.

I think sky made a thread about just that but tbh if we went that route I'd sooner swap the IRHT into the commander and make it apply a buff to IR Obers and the command panther and out a tank hunter squad in med instead.

Thats the whole point of the ability...

Uhh what's your point? Recon planes have no restriction either, except you can actually counter them....

Or in the case of passes, it's just a brief reveal

Actually thatss the point of it and why it occupies a doctrine slot.

Recon planes work the exact same way, except they can be countered... There's no reason for an ability like specops flares to exist

Uhh what's your point? Recon planes have no restriction either, except you can actually counter them....

Tell me, if all insects have 6 legs and you find one with 8 legs, do you still call it insect?
Arty flares is NOT a recon plane, its another variation of flares, one deployed via a whole commander slot call in, if you cant counter any kind of flare, then why on earth would you be able to counter arty flares then?

Tell me, if all insects have 6 legs and you find one with 8 legs, do you still call it insect?
Arty flares is NOT a recon plane, its another variation of flares, one deployed via a whole commander slot call in, if you cant counter any kind of flare, then why on earth would you be able to counter arty flares then?

Because you can counter the unit who needs to deploy the flare or you are limited to specific scenarios.

Old trip wire flare for Overwatch? Only on points. Early warning? Only on territories bordering yours.


You don't need to rework a whole mechanic when there is only 1 outlier.

Arty flares is NOT a recon plane, its another variation of flares, one deployed via a whole commander slot call in, if you cant counter any kind of flare, then why on earth would you be able to counter arty flares then?

You weren't talking about any kind of flares, you said "no restrictions is the point of the ability"

All other flare abilities have restrictions, the recon abilities that don't can be shot down. It's pretty simple...

You can also go back to the 2nd post in the thread where I said all flares are silly. Stop picking useless fights

You weren't talking about any kind of flares, you said "no restrictions is the point of the ability"

All other flare abilities have restrictions, the recon abilities that don't can be shot down. It's pretty simple...

In fact i was talking about flares in general.

You brought this up to yourself. At the post #15, it says that there is a reason why people focus on arty flares, because they have no restrictions. Its not fair to set up an uneven scale for comparison. Each flare skill has differences and not many people seem to care about it.
A PM41 mortar is just a team weapon with a flare ability, even if you only care about the flare and not the unit, you first have to get a PM41 mortar before getting flares. In this case the flare is the bonus feature not the whole unit function, it can still shoot mortar rounds. The morar itself is not that good, but its flare is intended to provide cheap vision around the mortar, to selfspot or scout, its a frontline skill. Makes no sense to sneak a mortar behind enemy lines just to find where the enemy Wstukas are parked...
Riflemen flares is a doctrinal upgrade that allows riflemen to scout ahead without risks, not a omnipresent FoW removal skillshot. Again, a cheap enough bonus feature instead of a main function ability.
UKF flares are a defensive oriented flare skill, simple as that, you dont go capturing territories to be able to light up that pesky LeFh...
SU sniper flare is the only one that really fits the 'give vital vision' flare skill, because it can sneak up behind enemy lines if its well micro'ed. But a sniper is also able to bleed MP and provide vision by itself, otherwise snipers should cost only 15 muni and only be able to launch flares (which is absurd)

And now the villain in this movie, the OKW arty flares, its whole purpose is to give in depth, uncounterable vision (because its a flare), it takes a doctrinal slot all for itself, it only serves one function, deploy a flare in the given position, i could dislike that design too but it is what it is.

Each flare is different on its own, i didnt write the rules of the game, i just read them. TBH im ok with the skill being reworked to simply enable LeiG's to be able to use flares like PM41s, or to raise its muni cost that can somehow balance the ability,

Because you can counter the unit who needs to deploy the flare or you are limited to specific scenarios.

Old trip wire flare for Overwatch? Only on points. Early warning? Only on territories bordering yours.


You don't need to rework a whole mechanic when there is only 1 outlier.

Even though i brought some discussion, i absolutely agree with you in what you just said.
I just disagree with some technicalities on how people compare the arty flares with other flare types.

A restriction is either a balance issue or a design issue, one or the another, but not both, because the way i see it, each flare is designed differently and because of that there will be 'balance' discrepancies, but anyways i think a whole flare rework is a viable solution as it would be to just nerf OKW flares to be deployed from LeiGs.

flare should be counterable with AA guns like aircrafts. simple as that.

Sounds fair enough to me to counter flares with AA. IRL Its kinda dumb though

You brought this up to yourself. At the post #15, it says that there is a reason why people focus on arty flares, because they have no restrictions. Its not fair to set up an uneven scale for comparison.

I did not bring that up myself. You'll notice that post you just referenced was responding to someone else, who specifically pointed out that other people were only talking about specops flares

As Elchino and I both explained, they are different than all other flares (which i still said should be changed anyway....)

Even though i brought some discussion, i absolutely agree with you in what you just said.
I just disagree with some technicalities on how people compare the arty flares with other flare types.

Yes, we understand that you like picking fights over irrelevant nonsense even though you agree the ability should be changed...

Um... Something can be a balance issue and a design issue... Emplacements for example, or recon that doesn't follow the rules of recon, the tiger ace of old, it's counterpart windustry, The various decisions from the release of volks... All flawed from a design standpoint creating waves in balance

what about if flares can be manually targeted by AA? Or you can change the the IR halftrack by removing its detection thing and replace with the ability to shoot flares for a muni cost

If not targetted by AA, how about just shorten the flare sight time. Right now it illuminates big areas for a long time. Repositioning is pointless until it dies out.

Reveal times shorten to i guess 25%?

So if scope got nerf to 1.5s wait time. I think flares can be looked into.

Um... Something can be a balance issue and a design issue... Emplacements for example, or recon that doesn't follow the rules of recon, the tiger ace of old, it's counterpart windustry, The various decisions from the release of volks... All flawed from a design standpoint creating waves in balance

Certainly it can, but balance issues are fixed with nerf/buffs and design issues are fixed with reworks/revamps.
If something has balance and design issues, that thing requires urgent intervention. Sometimes mechanics design are really bad and counter intuitive but the balance aspect levels it even, sometimes its the other way.

I did not bring that up myself. You'll notice that post you just referenced was responding to someone else, who specifically pointed out that other people were only talking about specops flares
...

First, dont repeat something if you cant back it up. Your qualification of the topic as irrelevant nonsense was enough for you to say "arty flares are the best because they have no restriction"
but i can disagree with that statement, prove a whole different valid point of view and do it without insulting no ones toughs, unless they take it personal. I am not saying anything about the other person to back up my points

I will move on as i consider this discussion ended

Yes, we understand that you like picking fights over irrelevant nonsense even though you agree the ability should be changed...

Putting words on others people mouth? Risky move.

First, dont repeat something if you cant back it up. Your qualification of the topic as irrelevant nonsense was enough for you to say "arty flares are the best because they have no restriction"
but i can disagree with that statement, prove a whole different valid point of view and do it without insulting no ones toughs, unless they take it personal. I am not saying anything about the other person to back up my points

You don't have a point. It has been explained to you why spec ops flares are the outlier compared to other flares, and you agree the ability should be changed anyway

The topic isn't irrelevant, your disagreement is. It doesn't matter if you disagree with my word choice if you agree the ability should be changed...