OKW is too oppressive towards other factions...

Or so they say in the OP patch thread for OKW. By "some factions" I think they really mean just USF because the Soviet penal spam and "clown car" as they call it does really well against them, more so if you add Shocks. And Brits actually have a mainline that actually preforms despite it's cost(well...for now, I guess they're going to "fix" that soon) and they have a decent MG as well as a mobile small armored vehicle, basically they have combat units available right away. So is the problem really OKW or is it USF? I'm inclined to think it's USF since handling OKW isn't overly difficult with the other two allied factions. Whats wrong with USF? Riflemen are what's wrong with USF...well Riflemen and the fact you have nothing else to work with at all when the game opens. Here is why:

An ambulance is a waste of resources and pointless as an opening unit, making one at the start of the will almost guarantee a loss. Frankly it's a mystery why it's a T0 unit rather than being unlocked after LT or CPT.

A mortar is of limited value. It's not accurate enough nor does it do enough damage to use against charging Strums or Volksgrenadiers. Don't get me wrong I'm glad it's there, it helps imensely against Ostheer's MG spamming but it won't help you much against OKW.

Rear Echeleons are a worthless combat unit. Utterly worthless and are no help to your Riflemen. Their only value is capping points and they are oddly incredibly expensive. 200 MP for them? Really guys?

Then we have Riflemen themselves. 280 MP and they can't stand up to a much cheaper 250 MP Volksgrenadier sqaud. They really can't. I've heard it a million times how good Riflemen supposedly are but they just simply are not. I've used Tommies, they're great worth their cost, I've used Penals, they're great worth their cost, Riflemen? Not even close. In fact it wasn't until I played more Brits and Soviets that I realized just how badly Riflemen suck. I know with double BARs and grenades they can be excellent but none of that matters if you can't get the early map control you need to get the resources (which is a lot) to upgrade them as OKW's little engineer unit is more than capable of wiping your mainline infantry you depend on. Hopefully the close range damage buff helps, I guess we'll see how that pans out.

So if you can't count on Riflemen (which you can't) what alternate do you have? I guess you could try Combat Engineers but they are very weak in fact they seem weaker than Rear Echeleons as far as health and recieved accuracy go but I don't know the numbers. I do know they don't work that well after the first 5 minutes of the game. They also seem pretty expensive at 280 MP, seems more like a 250 or 260 MP unit to me.

You can try Pathfinders. Not terrible but not great and they just have to be 290 MP for a 4 man sqaud too. God forbid USF gets a halfway decent starting infantry unit that's reasonably priced. I've never had a lot of luck with Pathfinders, if they were a 5 man sqaud for 300 MP they might be worth it. As they are they're just cooler looking Riflemen with one less man and a higher cost.

What to do about USF? You can try to buff Riflemen (like they are in the next patch) or give them something else to work with like adding something like a WC51 or a starting 5 man RE sqaud or an MG or something...

Have you even tried the patch mod USF? Rifles are a fucking powerhouse against OKW in the mod.

What are you talking about? They made volks 10mp more to make. Problem solved. Kappa.

Kappa not so much because its still a huge problem but because it got addressed in other ways too.

Have you even tried the patch mod USF? Rifles are a fucking powerhouse against OKW in the mod.

That.

What are you talking about? They made volks 10mp more to make. Problem solved. Kappa.

Kappa not so much because its still a huge problem but because it got addressed in other ways too.


That.

Okay well then we'll have to see how the Riflemen buff works out, I hope it does. The OKW nerfs aren't going to change them much.

I am mainly a USF player. I think the Riflemans are fine, they have low long-range dps, but they have a good target size on 3 vets. This gives them good survival. However, this unit has problems, such as:
1. Reinforcement for 28 MP. (Very expensive)
2. Great requirements for vet.
3. The first vet does not improve combat performance.
4. AT grenade tied to 1 vet, which means that each new Rifleman is helpless against vehicle.
5. Special costs of mp and fuel for access to the bar and grenades.

The Rear Echelon problem:
1. Reinforcement for 25 MP. (Like a Volks)
2. Bad modernization. They dont have a flamethrower and mines. Even if he could buy a bazooka, like a Lieutenant, he would not become such a threat as a stormpioner with a panzershrek. Because the bazooka has a very low penetration and damage.

The problem of assault engineers
Only one: Target size that has been changed from 0.9 to 1.0.
0.9 appears on the first vet. This destroyed the unit's opening game. They lose 1-2 models while shortening the distance with a cheaper unit like the Volks. They don't have grenades or sprints like assault grenadiers to make up for such weaknesses.

The Pathfinder Problem
1. Bad survival. 4 people in the squad, but the target size is worse than that of the rifleman. If you compare with the light jaeger squad, the difference is very large.
2. The price of 290 MP does not correspond to the unit's performance. They lose at any distance against to Volks for 260MP. (Without vet) With vet I have not tested.
3. For 290 MP, the squad does not have any grenades, or AT grenades, and even smoke grenades.

double bazookas on RE are more terrifying than one schreck on a Stpio.

double bazookas on RE are more terrifying than one schreck on a Stpio.

That is relevant to what was said so far how again?

That is relevant to what was said so far how again?

Again...read the other posts:
Riley wrote:

"Even if he could buy a bazooka, like a Lieutenant, he would not become such a threat as a stormpioner with a panzershrek. Because the bazooka has a very low penetration and damage."

Again...read the other posts:
Riley wrote:

"Even if he could buy a bazooka, like a Lieutenant, he would not become such a threat as a stormpioner with a panzershrek. Because the bazooka has a very low penetration and damage."

Well, from his wording, I don't think he is aware of weapon racks.

Well, from his wording, I don't think he is aware of weapon racks.

i understand this that he want to say that one schreck is better than 2 zooks. this is wrong

I did suggest the WC51 be added to the USF T0 I think a long time ago but yeah... Then you'd have to replace it in Mech Company with something like the M8 greyhound.

MG would not work unless it's the British Vickers just renamed to Browning M1917. The 50 cal is much too powerful to be in T0 in my opinion altho an M1919A4 might be a good alternative. There's even a model for it and the M2 60mm mortar, just no animations.

But then again you'd have 3 out of the 5 Armies in game with T0 MGs while the OKW and Sovs have arguably the shittiest stuck behind tech.

i understand this that he want to say that one schreck is better than 2 zooks. this is wrong

1 Shreck Sturmpio is definitely worse than 2 zooks for USF, espeically when there is huge cost difference and efficiency. 2 zooks is definitely better.

CODGUY my man they will not buff USF with buffs to Axis stuff. Before the balance patch it was the "volks only" thing that was breaking the balance. Hopefully it is fixed now and Rifles buffed too. No USF is not bad you are just a USF crybaby (sorry pal).

I don't think next patch could fix Volks.

The Volk's problem is not its fighting power or its price. The problem is its utility.

Volk could fill all roles, includes snare, clear garrison, assault, hold the line, and build sand bags while other factions' mainline ifantry usually miss one or two roles.

I feel more comfortable against okw. Than against this no skill 666 followed by triple stuges.

Also those t0 mgs. They arent anti blob. Blob clears them. Its an early game mousetrap for squads forcing instant retreat.

Okw has most OP unit in the game - raketen. Thats being nerfed now

Volk could fill all roles, includes snare, clear garrison, assault, hold the line, and build sand bags while other factions' mainline ifantry usually miss one or two roles.

When volks can get 1-2 LMGs they count as "filling all roles"

AnD the sherck back

Okay well then we'll have to see how the Riflemen buff works out, I hope it does. The OKW nerfs aren't going to change them much.

New riflemen dominate OKW with mp nerfs. To the point where Tightrope even questions if the OKW mp nerfs were too harsh.

New riflemen dominate OKW with mp nerfs. To the point where Tightrope even questions if the OKW mp nerfs were too harsh.

because a riflemen squad is superior to a volks sqaud, however because of MP, okw was able to swarm volks and outnumber USF, with the new changes they wont be able to hence, why they get dominated now

because a riflemen squad is superior to a volks sqaud, however because of MP, okw was able to swarm volks and outnumber USF, with the new changes they wont be able to hence, why they get dominated now

The classic case of "balance changed, but players didn't changed their strats and BOs".