Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

I know they are scaling well, have loads of utility but aren’t they costing too much for what they offer and for their veterancy ?
Suggestion are
> Improve them to Volks level OR (probably the best idea)
> Reduce the G43 cost OR (Not sure abaout this)
> Reduce MP cost (this may encourage early blobbing so i am not really into that)

I know they are scaling well, have loads of utility but aren’t they costing too much for what they offer and for their veterancy ?
Suggestion are
> Improve them to Volks level OR (probably the best idea)
> Reduce the G43 cost OR (Not sure abaout this)
> Reduce MP cost (this may encourage early blobbing so i am not really into that)

I think that people should supplement their early build order with PFs and not replace the volks completely. This way you get strong early game with volks with faust from PFs and better late game scaling due to fussies in your roster. Upgrading G43s should be your priority. PFs get really strong once G43s hit the field.

PFs don't need buffs, otherwise they will become a no brainer from minute 0 and Volks, who are really good infantry for their cost, will become overshadowed.

I think that people should supplement their early build order with PFs and not replace the volks completely. This way you get strong early game with volks with faust from PFs and better late game scaling due to fussies in your roster. Upgrading G43s should be your priority. PFs get really strong once G43s hit the field.

PFs don't need buffs, otherwise they will become a no brainer from minute 0 and Volks, who are really good infantry for their cost, will become overshadowed.

Thats why I am saying they need adjustments. Current PF is heavily overlaping with volks IMO.

Current PF is heavily overlaping with volks IMO.

That's because they are supposed to.
They literally ARE volk alternative with better scaling and more utility, to make them less of a no-brainer pick, they start off slower.

That's because they are supposed to.
They literally ARE volk alternative with better scaling and more utility, to make them less of a no-brainer pick, they start off slower.

seem a little too much to make them both more expensive and have less damage like they are now

seem a little too much to make them both more expensive and have less damage like they are now

Upgraded they deal more damage. It's a supplement and an investment for OKW build order.

You could follow the same logic with paratroopers - just under 400 MP, being marginally better than 6-man rifleman would be, unless you upgrade them for 90-120 muni, then they excell. Difference here is that paratroopers come late and it's sometimes difficult to find a spot for them in your army, as you usually have quite a few infantry units by the time you reach 3 CPs.

seem a little too much to make them both more expensive and have less damage like they are now

That is what I’m saying. If a unit is performing worse than its cheaper counterpart when its performance is most needed then why bother using the expensive one right ?

Upgraded they deal more damage. It's a supplement and an investment for OKW build order.

You could follow the same logic with paratroopers - just under 400 MP, being marginally better than 6-man rifleman would be, unless you upgrade them for 90-120 muni, then they excell. Difference here is that paratroopers come late and it's sometimes difficult to find a spot for them in your army, as you usually have quite a few infantry units by the time you reach 3 CPs.

well what did u expect form a 90 mun upgrade to be worse than a 60 mun ?

That is what I’m saying. If a unit is performing worse than its cheaper counterpart when its performance is most needed then why bother using the expensive one right ?

Because you are not forced to use one or the other, you are perfectly fine mixing them, you also have 2 more supporting units in stock and that more expensive units gets incomparably better performance from the moment you can upgrade it AND its much more flexible on top, having both AI and AT upgrade, recon capabilities and much better vet scaling.

Because you are not forced to use one or the other, you are perfectly fine mixing them, you also have 2 more supporting units in stock and that more expensive units gets incomparably better performance from the moment you can upgrade it AND its much more flexible on top, having both AI and AT upgrade, recon capabilities and much better vet scaling.

yes but it does not make sense, do u pay extra for cons and rifle better vet, do u pay the extra men in advance for cons and IS ?

do u pay the versatility of upgrade for RE, Re; rifle and IS ?

Just for context, the g43 upgrade cost 90 mun and give worse g43 of the green and 1 more man

yes but it does not make sense, do u pay extra for cons and rifle better vet, do u pay the extra men in advance for cons and IS ?

do u pay the versatility of upgrade for RE, Re; rifle and IS ?

Just for context, the g43 upgrade cost 90 mun and give worse g43 of the green and 1 more man

Well, we can put them to what they were and lock them behind 2CP again if you'd like.

They have more out of the gate then volks(AT nade alone not requiring any trucks), just not more dps.

And if price gap is such an issue for you, fear no longer, because we're rising volks cost.

Let me remind you why they are 0CP in the first place:
Show Spoiler

That means they ARE balanced SPECIFICALLY with UPGRADES in mind.
Your examples are also beyond retarded as not a singular one of them is a doctrinal unit, just upgrades for stock units, alternatives to what they already can upgrade.

PFs are like obers, you can get them without upgrade, but they aren't mean't to be used without them.

Well, we can put them to what they were and lock them behind 2CP again if you'd like.

They have more out of the gate then volks(AT nade alone not requiring any trucks), just not more dps.

And if price gap is such an issue for you, fear no longer, because we're rising volks cost.

do we do the same for other 0 cp units ? like ass green and eng ?

do we do the same for other 0 cp units ? like ass green and eng ?

Ass grens are not alternative for grens, they are completely different squad with different use, different ability kit and can not be used as mainline infantry.
Ass engies are not alternative for rifles, they are completely different squad with different use, different ability kit and can not be used as mainline infantry.
PFs ARE alternative for volks, they have the exact same role on field, overlapping, but more powerful/accessible abilities and stronger upgrades that also branch in AT part if you feel like you need it, they ARE alternative mainline infantry with less weaknesses and more strengths beyond very early game.

So like penal to cons ?

if so give them penal rifle

well what did u expect form a 90 mun upgrade to be worse than a 60 mun ?

You compared PFs to Volks and said the PFs are more expensive and deal less damage than Volks. I then said that your claim is not always true because you should take the upgrades into account. Please, be honest about the unit performance.

So like penal to cons ?

if so give them penal rifle

Ok, but you'll have to build an additional tech structure for 160 MP and 10 FU to be able to field them. Deal?

No, not really, penals don't have upgrades enhancing their primary role and have completely different ability set.

Give it couple more shots and don't get discouraged, you're slowly starting to grasp the concept.

You compared PFs to Volks and said the PFs are more expensive and deal less damage than Volks. I then said that your claim is not always true because you should take the upgrades into account. Please, be honest about the unit performance.



Ok, but you'll have to build an additional tech structure for 160 MP and 10 FU to be able to field them. Deal?

rifle should cost much more cause they deal more damage with upgrades great logic right ?

do they come doctrinal ?

No, not really, penals don't have upgrades enhancing their primary role and have completely different ability set.

Give it couple more shots and don't get discouraged, you're slowly starting to grasp the concept.

that if it has a cross it should cost more ? yea sometimes i forget that

rifle should cost much more cause they deal more damage with upgrades great logic right ?

do they come doctrinal ?

1. Rifleman upgrades are not just MU, it's also MP and FU to unlock.
2. ...also should cost much more than what exactly?
3. Doctrinal units don't have to always be a straight up better version of standard units.

Please, compose a full argument so I can give you a thorough response.

PFs have attractive abilities like panzerfaust from the start, which helps your army not to get bullied by the M3 with flame thrower CE inside. The weapon upgrade is strong and squad being 6-men with increased sight allows you to spot MGs and make good decisions before and during engagement. If you don't find such features appealing then you don't have to use this unit.

1. Rifleman upgrades are not just MU, it's also MP and FU to unlock.
2. ...also should cost much more than what exactly?
3. Doctrinal units don't have to be a straight up better version of standard units.

Please, compose a full argument so I can give you a thorough response.

PFs have attractive abilities like panzerfaust from the start, which helps your army not to get bullied by the M3 with flame thrower CE inside. The weapon upgrade is strong and squad being 6-men with increased sight allows you to spot MGs and make good decisions before and during engagement. If you don't find such features appealing then you don't have to use this unit.

i will explain my full argument:

1 we don't increase the base cost of an unit cuase of it's upgrades, we increase the upgrade cost
2 the upgrades are priced fairly, the shreck make us lose at nades and pfusi g 43 is a mix of cons upgrade and g 43 upgrade (the g 43 are still worse tho than normal)
3 the unit itself deals worst damage than volks and cost more, i could understand if they were better or costed similar but both worse and more expensive does not make sense

they either need to : reduce the cost in mp as they don't perform for the price or a better base weapon to make them perform for their price

the argument that they have better scalling or they have versatile upgrade is worthless as we have unit with great vet and versatility that don't pay for it by being overpriced, and they are not even doctrinal


let's not forget u don't pay for nades and upgrades unlock for doctrinal units (and even then pfusi upgrade are locked behind tech)

the simple comparison is rifle, both have great vet and versatility, but one actually perform for its price while the other does not, and before u say "rifle pay for nades and upgrades", yes they do and pfusi are doctrinal and have draw backs (no at nades with shreck , unlike zook, no 6 g43, unlike bar)

so again why should pfusi cost more and be worse ?

btw pfusi vet is almost the same as penal