Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR 2 YEARS, OKW DOES NOT GET FREE UPGRADES, THE UPGRADES ARE IN THE TECH TREE COST

I HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE SAYING " UHHE b-b-but OPKW gets freeeeeeee barsssssss and nadesssssss !!!!1111!!!"

to further add the only thing OKW get for "free" are 1 flak AA at tier 4, a more durable reinforce bunker with tier 1 and the access to KT, other faction get similar perks usf has "free" officer and vehicle crews, ukf has 25 pounders and 17 pounder etc

btw, no Soviet upgrade cost have been reduced since last year they pay 10+20+20+85+90

Don't forget flak bunkers in base Those things and USF extra MG bunkers should had been removed several years ago (even if the USF base design is bad overall)

The problem is not how much you end up paying overall throughout the game, it's WHEN AND HOW you are paying for those things. Timing. What you are sacrificing for it.

Ex: USF ends up scaling way beyond if they manage to get their upgrades going on, vetting, teching, etc.
The problem atm is that you will get bully out early on before you can either leverage your upgrades or the free officer. That free officer which is a Rifle with 1 Thompson that takes eons to get build while you try to somehow maintain map control with 3 Rifles + RE vs 4 Volks + SP. There's also healing. Yeah, it's effective on the long run to have a "free" use healing, but early on you can't afford an ambulance and without upgrades you can't really expend munitions.

MP wise, check what slows down each faction. Another ex: if OH and SU specially, had the same base construction as WFA + UKF, they would be beyond OP. Specially Penal opening.


Just to summarise. Complaining about "FREE UPGRADES" is just as stupid as not considering how they get those upgrades an advantage.
And the most stupid mistake is considering things in isolation.

u miss understood, u get nade at first unlock, then u get bar at second unlock, the price is divided in late and early tho

Where exactly are you putting the costs. WTF does "early and late" mean for distributing tech costs? Say the tier, and the number

Where exactly are you putting the costs. WTF does "early and late" mean for distributing tech costs? Say the tier, and the number

alredy did

Don't forget flak bunkers in base Those things and USF extra MG bunkers should had been removed several years ago (even if the USF base design is bad overall)

The problem is not how much you end up paying overall throughout the game, it's WHEN AND HOW you are paying for those things. Timing. What you are sacrificing for it.

Ex: USF ends up scaling way beyond if they manage to get their upgrades going on, vetting, teching, etc.
The problem atm is that you will get bully out early on before you can either leverage your upgrades or the free officer. That free officer which is a Rifle with 1 Thompson that takes eons to get build while you try to somehow maintain map control with 3 Rifles + RE vs 4 Volks + SP. There's also healing. Yeah, it's effective on the long run to have a "free" use healing, but early on you can't afford an ambulance and without upgrades you can't really expend munitions.

MP wise, check what slows down each faction. Another ex: if OH and SU specially, had the same base construction as WFA + UKF, they would be beyond OP. Specially Penal opening.


Just to summarise. Complaining about "FREE UPGRADES" is just as stupid as not considering how they get those upgrades an advantage.
And the most stupid mistake is considering things in isolation.

first

wait wait u forgot the centaur rush (even cheaper than ostwind rush)

and were did u get the conversion ? Even doc ability like fuel drop cost a lot and require a risky position to convert mp to fuel

and really ? ostwind rush has access to only pgreen pioneer and mg 42 JUST THIS 3 UNITS, a centaur rush has access to IS, vicker,RE, bren, sniper, mortar emplacement, and at gun u can easily tell who gets the easier time in case of a rush

do tell me to what is bren IS and sniper gonna lose as they don0't have snare LV or gren

if ukf rush centaur and ostehr rush ostwind ukf wins hands down as the centaur even counter the ostwind

now i don't know how u can get 4 volks (1000) mp way before 4 rifle (1120)

but volks are okw is having that problem resolved with the patch preview (although i don't agree the direction of the changes, i preferred a nerf to volks performance and stg and even less starting mp)

and i do agree that taking in contest is important

but then why this logic is not applied to pfusi ?

alredy did

Adding 15 to officers? As I said 50 for MG and an officer is absurd

Adding 15 to officers? As I said 50 for MG and an officer is absurd

u got liut for normal 35 fuel, u now have acces to normal nades, the second unlock (be it LV or other cap) will cost 15 more fuel and 100-150 mp and u will get smoke bar and zook, then major will cost the remaining cost of the upgrades

please read carefully

u got liut for normal 35 fuel, u now have acces to normal nades, the second unlock (be it LV or other chap) will cost 15 more fuel and 100-150 mp and u will get smoke bar and zook, then major will cost the remaining cost of the upgrades

So now the cost of their tiers changes depending on what I buy first? Captain might be 35 fu, unless I buy LT first in which case he becomes 50? Does he go back down to 35 if I complete LT? Dont bother answering, cause this is ridiculous

To answer your original question: Yes. That would be very different from the current system.......

So now the cost of my tiers changes depending on what I buy first? Captain might be 35 fu, unless I buy LT first in which case he becomes 50? Does he go back down to 35 if I complete LT? Dont bother answering, cause this is ridiculous

To answer your original question: Yes. That would be very different from the current system.......

ok seems like u are being a thick head for no reason here copy pasted from okw:
after first officer unlock, which will give u normal nades for "free", u have to buy a 15 fuel 100 mp "trickle down tax" if u want to go further with the tier, then after second unlock u will get all the other upgrades and either a nerfed bar or a bar limited to 1, then before u can buy major u will have to pay another 100-150 mp and 15 fuel "tax exemptions for the 1%" that will allow to be able to buy major as normal

with this u can now say rifle don't have to pay for upgrades right ? like pfusi and volks

ok seems like u are being a thick head for no reason here copy pasted from okw:

Seriously? Im not the one redesigning the factions tech just for the sake of continuing an argument

You are making way too many changes all at once, its impossible to follow what is going through your head

How many Centaur rushes have you seen on which UKF skips bolster + nades and or weapons to get a Centaur midgame while also skipping the AEC as opposed to either of the 2 builds i mentioned as OH?

IF AT Boys IS were a thing should i would had consider mentioning it.

first

now i don't know how u can get 4 volks (1000) mp way before 4 rifle (1120)

but volks are okw is having that problem resolved with the patch preview (although i don't agree the direction of the changes, i preferred a nerf to volks performance and stg and even less starting mp)

and i do agree that taking in contest is important

but then why this logic is not applied to pfusi ?

My point in the subject is that they probably needs some cost adjustment and from what i read in the patchnotes they will probably get one. So if something is gonna be done, i'll rather wait first and see what they plan to do.

Getting 4 Rifles is shooting yourself in the foot. You will get another "Rifle" with either LT or Cpt. You need to get an ambulance if you go for 4 Rifles, and you will need either nades or weapon upgrade, further delaying tech early on for either the 50cal or light vehicles. Throwing more Rifles is not the solution for USF in 2019.

How is USF facing 4 Volks + SP with only 3 Rifles?
First, MP advantage. 2nd, you start teching for LT/Cpt at around 2:30 with 3 Rifles or the equivalent using doctrinal units. 3:30 is when the LT finally arrives from the boarder of the map.

3:30 is ez to remember cause it's also the average timing for 60 munitions, the time you should worry about a clowncar for example.

and were did u get the conversion ? Even doc ability like fuel drop cost a lot and require a risky position to convert mp to fuel

That's on Relic. Both how they converted resources originally or how they assigned Xp value to units.
That's how i remember it and for safety, the first thing that appear as a search is a post from Vipper on the official forums saying the same thing (so i'm not the only one thinking about it).

How many Centaur rushes have you seen on which UKF skips bolster + nades and or weapons to get a Centaur midgame while also skipping the AEC as opposed to either of the 2 builds i mentioned as OH?

IF AT Boys IS were a thing should i would had consider mentioning it.



My point in the subject is that they probably needs some cost adjustment and from what i read in the patchnotes they will probably get one. So if something is gonna be done, i'll rather wait first and see what they plan to do.

u have at guns and RE with snare tho, tell me how it's worse than no snare and only sherck

oh then we agree unlike most people here saying they are price fairly for their current performance

Seriously? Im not the one redesigning the factions tech just for the sake of continuing an argument

You are making way too many changes all at once, its impossible to follow what is going through your head

it was en example to make u understand that OKW basically has upgrade tied to tech and are mandatory, does not matter how much u whine about

if u go for pfusi u will still have to pay for said cost, similar to how path finder get bar or para get upgardes

u have at guns and RE with snare tho, tell me how it's worse than no snare and only sherck

oh then we agree unlike most people here saying they are price fairly for their current performance

Dunno, but that's how meta and most "efficient" way to play is with each faction.

it was en example to make u understand that OKW basically has upgrade tied to tech and are mandatory, does not matter how much u whine about

You can divide US side-techs into the cost of the squads

So if you want weapons and nades, rifleman/REs cost more than 280/200, cause the MP and fuel gets divided between whatever squads you equip/use nades with

Fusiliers cost what they cost. If you divide up the tech cost of their requirements for nades and weapon upgrades, you have to subtract the value of unlocking units in that tier, the value of unlocking ability to build Flak HQ, and the value of having 1/3 of KT tech

USF weapon upgrades give you NO PROGRESS towards anything else, so the cost goes into whatever squads you equip/use nades with

Do you see the difference yet? It matters quite a bit when you compare rifleman and fussies (ITS NOT about how long it takes you to get tanks out or about how much total fuel you spend on all other things at the end of the game, idk why you ever brought that up)

You can divide US side-techs into the cost of the squads

So if you want weapons and nades, rifleman/REs cost more than 280/200, cause the MP and fuel gets divided between whatever squads you equip/use nades with

Fusiliers cost what they cost. If you divide up the tech cost of their requirements for nades and weapon upgrades, you have to subtract the value of unlocking units in that tier, the value of unlocking ability to build Flak HQ, and the value of having 1/3 of KT tech

USF weapon upgrades give you NO PROGRESS towards anything else, so the cost goes into whatever squads you equip/use nades with

Do you see the difference yet? It matters quite a bit when you compare rifleman and fussies (ITS NOT about how long it takes you to get tanks out or about how much total fuel you spend on all other things at the end of the game, idk why you ever brought that up)

do we subtract from the value of tier upgrade the crew of usf and major of usf ?
again okw has upgrades incorporated in the tech cost , proved it with math and everyone but is acknowledging this

if ur logic was true that would mean that okw needs to add value to their tank as they pay much more if u don't want to count it towards upgrade

either okw pays for the upgrade or for better tank, their tank are not better so my point stands , the upgrade cost is incorporated with tech and looking at the total u pay equal or more than other factions

u as always think okw is the special snowflake that get's everything free, but remove ur bias glasses and u will see the numbers don't lie

getting to tier 3 with medics for okw cost 185 fuel (not rushing simply reaching tier 3)

for usf while getting both upgrades and ambulance cost 195 fuel (not rushing again)

for full tech cost okw pays 260 while usf pays 250

unless tier 3 okw tank value the increase in price (spoiler they don't they are the same as other factions) then that means the extra fuel cost goes to upgrades

do we subtract from the value of tier upgrade the crew of usf and major of usf ?

Uhh yes. You do. Notice that major tech and okw flak HQ are MUCH more expensive than Ost and Sov equivalents

Flak HQ requires a munitions upgrade does it? You buy your t4 building and then have to pay separately for a massive AA gun with 360 degree suppression? No you dont

u as always think okw is the special snowflake that get's everything free, but remove ur bias glasses and u will see the numbers don't lie

You do realize everyone here already knows the tech costs right? We're talking about when and how those costs are distributed, which matters a great deal

Uhh yes. You do. Notice that major tech and okw flak HQ are MUCH more expensive than Ost and Sov equivalents

Flak HQ requires a munitions upgrade does it? You buy your t4 building and then have to pay separately for a massive AA gun with 360 degree suppression? No you dont



You do realize everyone here already knows the tech costs right? We're talking about when and how those costs are distributed, which matters a great deal

were are comparing to usf now

do u pay extra munitions for MOBILE FRP of the major ? Does it occupy a commander slot to have both recon and an off map ?

exactly, 1 faction has the option to either skip those upgrades to get to tank LV,LT faster or simply use doc unit like para ignoring upgrades , or even get the upgrades sooner than the other faction and have and stronger edge earlier

the other faction lack this flexibility and the upgrades are much more restrictive

were are comparing to usf now

do u pay extra munitions for MOBILE FRP of the major ? Does it occupy a commander slot to have both recon and an off map ?

Lol no, thats exactly the point I was making...

Tech costs include too many perks to compare, side-techs dont, its just one thing specifically and no progress

If you're still gonna ignore this, I give up trying to convince you. Not really worth the effort