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Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

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29 Aug 2019, 20:08 PM
#281
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

08/19 Tech cost:



PD: Notice how i didn't discount cost for starting fuel? It's only fair to discount if you also take into account manpower difference with starting unit into account.
If SU is the lowest faction denominator then:

Su: 560mp
USF: +40
OH/UKF: +60
OKW: +80
leaving aside all the wrong number like okw

u are free to count starting unit mp cost in it i don't believe a 80mp at max advantage is equal to -15 fuel
29 Aug 2019, 20:10 PM
#282
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

im sorry dooes okw get puma when it gets tier 1 ? and does okw get snipers ?

/SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
/205/250/260/250

i don't knwo how u all get numbers wrong

Please read the post, this is fuel gain for FULL tech. The rest of the discussion is very tedious, as OKW also gets stuff that other factions don't. No use in arguing with you about that, as you won't hear since you pull out those "arguments" quite often.
To the Puma: I specifically said that this is not a tank rush scenario in literally the SAME sentence.

And how I get "all" the numbers wrong:
Nice one mate. First, you only corrected one value, that's obviously "all numbers". But at least good catch, the fact that I mistyped one letter makes all the difference in the argument. Please also respond to the rest of the stuff that you ignored now multiple times.

I do see that you're getting a lot of contra here and in some cases even in my eyes not deserved, but that is no reason to sabotage an otherwise mostly okay discussion. Please come back to a normal discussion culture.
29 Aug 2019, 20:19 PM
#283
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

08/19 Tech cost:

OKW:
340/5 (300)

Trucks: 100/15
Deployment: 200/25-45-120
Medic/Engineer: 100/15

1 Truck, 1 upgrade, Flak:
700mp 190/210f (-5f)
2 trucks:
1000mp/250f
With both upgrades:
1100mp/265f


USF
400/20 (200)

Upgrades: 150/15
Medic: 250/10 (2/3 popcap)
Officers: 200/35
Upgrade: 50/20
Major: 190/120

Weapon, nade, ambulance, 1 officer full, major:
990mp/215f (-20f)
Including both MG and AT gun:
1190mp/250f
Full roster:
1240mp/270f


SU:
390/20 (170)

Medics: 250
AT nade/Molotov: 80/10 - 125/10
T1: 160/10
T2: 160/20
T3: 240/85
T4: 240/90

Medics, T1, T3, T4:
890mp/185f (-20f)
T2 with conscripts upgrades:
1095/215f
Full tech:
1255/225f


OH:

420/20 (200)

T1: 80/10
BP1: 100/40
T2: 200/20
BP2: 200/90
T3: 140/15
BP3: 100/25
T4: 100/25
Medic: 150/0/60 (muni)

Medic, T3 (Ostwind rush):
590/145 (-20f) (+60mu)
With T1:
670/155
With T1+T2:
870/175
T1 + T2 + T4:
930/210
Full:
1070/235


UKF

340/20 (280)

Bolster: 150/35
Weapon: 150/15
Nades: 100/10
Platoon: 180/30
Side tech unit: 100/15
Company: 280/115
Anvil/Hammer: 200/50
Medics: 30mu x1 or 200mp/60mu

can i ask why u count the healing of the advanced point INSTEAD of the AREA HEALING ON MAIN LINE ?

it's only fair u do the centaur rush too
Platoon + Company + healing:
460/145

Bolster, nade, Platoon, side tech (or weapon), Company, healing:
810-860/205 (-20f) (+60muni)
Anvil or Hammer:
1010-1060/255
Full:
1160/270
Full + non meta healing:
1360/270 (+60muni)




made some fix, if don't like okw i can understand but there is no reason to make it seems that they pay less fuel for propaganda
29 Aug 2019, 20:29 PM
#284
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Please read the post, this is fuel gain for FULL tech. The rest of the discussion is very tedious, as OKW also gets stuff that other factions don't. No use in arguing with you about that, as you won't hear since you pull out those "arguments" quite often.
To the Puma: I specifically said that this is not a tank rush scenario in literally the SAME sentence.

And how I get "all" the numbers wrong:
Nice one mate. First, you only corrected one value, that's obviously "all numbers". But at least good catch, the fact that I mistyped one letter makes all the difference in the argument. Please also respond to the rest of the stuff that you ignored now multiple times.

I do see that you're getting a lot of contra here and in some cases even in my eyes not deserved, but that is no reason to sabotage an otherwise mostly okay discussion. Please come back to a normal discussion culture.

by " u all " i mean u all guys got the numbers wrongs, not that u got ALL the number wrong

yes they do pay for the extra tech i counted that, but not in the fast medium scenario im sorry if u or i misunderstood what i or u meant

and even then the number are wrong

full tech is
SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
225(-20)/270(-20)/265(-5)/270(-20)


so now can people stop saying "okw get free upgrades" if in the end if we rush medium or get the full tech they pay equal or slightly more than other factions ?
29 Aug 2019, 20:41 PM
#285
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2


by " u all " i mean u all guys got the numbers wrongs, not that u got ALL the number wrong

yes they do pay for the extra tech i counted that, but not in the fast medium scenario

and even then the number are wrong

full tech is
SOV/USF/OKW/UKF
225(-20)/270(-20)/265(-5)/270(-20)



My misread then, sorry.

We're going in circles here.

So (aside from SOV) we have the same numbers (From what I got, aren't SOV 10+20+85+90+25(side tech)?). But well, that does not make much of a difference after all.

Now, can we finally agree that OKW does not pay extra, but basically the same as other factions?
29 Aug 2019, 20:42 PM
#286
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


My misread then, sorry.

We're going in circles here.

So (aside from SOV) we have the same numbers (From what I got, aren't SOV 10+20+85+90+25(side tech)?). But well, that does not make much of a difference after all.

Now, can we finally agree that OKW does not pay extra, but basically the same as other factions?
THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR 2 YEARS, OKW DOES NOT GET FREE UPGRADES, THE UPGRADES ARE IN THE TECH TREE COST

I HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE SAYING " UHHE b-b-but OPKW gets freeeeeeee barsssssss and nadesssssss !!!!1111!!!"

to further add the only thing OKW get for "free" are 1 flak AA at tier 4, a more durable reinforce bunker with tier 1 and the access to KT, other faction get similar perks usf has "free" officer and vehicle crews, ukf has 25 pounders and 17 pounder etc

btw, no Soviet upgrade cost have been reduced since last year they pay 10+20+20+85+90

29 Aug 2019, 20:53 PM
#287
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

last time i checked usf is 120+55+55+30+10-20=250

and now that i check u got all number wrong, dude..... how is the seocnd truck only 230 fuel ? 190 is the cost for tier 1 and flack + medics , another truck cost 15 fu then 45 for the mech and then 15 for toher upgrade


Mindfart, sum the 2nd tech without the truck. That's what happen when you are doing mental math for a part, writing a number, taking a half break and then going back. Gonna recheck numbers now that i have time.

29 Aug 2019, 20:56 PM
#288
avatar of Hannibal
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Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR 2 YEARS, OKW DOES NOT GET FREE UPGRADES, THE UPGRADES ARE IN THE TECH TREE COST

I HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE SAYING " UHHE b-b-but OPKW gets freeeeeeee barsssssss and nadesssssss !!!!1111!!!"

btw, no Soviet upgrade cost have been reduced now they pay 10+20+20+85+90


Not in fuel (although as I said they have a bit more early game income due to map control), Allies pay a bit more in MP for the combo of 4 line infantry (USF 3 plus free officer), 1 engineer, medic and fast tech up to medium.
29 Aug 2019, 21:05 PM
#289
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Not in fuel (although as I said they have a bit more early game income due to map control), Allies pay a bit more in MP for the combo of 4 line infantry (USF 3 plus free officer), 1 engineer, medic and fast tech up to medium.

yes u right okw is still a bit behind in fuel

and yes they do pay a bit more mp, but they are better unit too, rifle are equal at long range and beat volks at mid and close, IS beat vloks at mid and long but tend to lose at close



29 Aug 2019, 21:24 PM
#290
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

I dont really see a difference in having Panzerfusiliers as a doctrinal unit as for some other factions in game.

I feel it should be default since it does not perform an better.

It is not that much a unique nor a elite unit.


USF should have Assault Engineers by default too except it starts with 4 man and has optional upgrade to acquire 5 man instead.
29 Aug 2019, 21:26 PM
#291
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR 2 YEARS, OKW DOES NOT GET FREE UPGRADES, THE UPGRADES ARE IN THE TECH TREE COST

I HAVE HEARD ENOUGH OF PEOPLE SAYING " UHHE b-b-but OPKW gets freeeeeeee barsssssss and nadesssssss !!!!1111!!!


No one is saying that, can you stop acting like a child? Going on freakouts like this doesn't help your argument, the opposite actually

I just explained to you, the entire time we're talking about squads specifically. This isn't about a race to finish teching, its squad to squad cost

Not about "okw gets free upgrades". Its about spending mp and fuel on tech that unlocks nothing BUT upgrades, which Fussies don't have to do. This matters if you're gonna compare them to Rifleman cost...
29 Aug 2019, 21:36 PM
#292
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



No one is saying that, can you stop acting like a child? Going on freakouts like this doesn't help your argument, the opposite actually

I just explained to you, the entire time we're talking about squads specifically. This isn't about a race to finish teching, its squad to squad cost

Not about "okw gets free upgrades". Its about spending mp and fuel on tech that unlocks nothing BUT upgrades, which Fussies don't have to do. This matters if you're gonna compare them to Rifleman cost...
this is the

meme

do u want to pay 15 fuel and then 5 for shipping or 20 fuel and free shipping :snfPeter:
29 Aug 2019, 21:39 PM
#293
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

ast time i checked usf is 120+55+55+30+10-20=250




made some fix, if don't like okw i can understand but there is no reason to make it seems that they pay less fuel for propaganda


leaving aside all the wrong number like okw

u are free to count starting unit mp cost in it i don't believe a 80mp at max advantage is equal to -15 fuel


it's only fair u do the centaur rush too Platoon + Company + healing:


Combined answer.
I just posted the full tech cost for future reference. Initial resources can change and i also put the initial mp/fuel and starting unit each faction has.

TBH, the ratio is just standard and "fair", at least by Relic ratio. IIRC it's 5mp = 3muni = 1f. At least how they value unit worth.

UKF will go Bolster on practically every game. You need either weapon or AEC (meme bofors for teamgames) to survive the early game unless you want to lose whole map control. The sole reason Ostwind rush works is due to new PGs which still get access to schrecks.

I didn't count the meme forward assembly healing. I just put +60mu as standard for 2 IS upgrading healing. That thing i only accounted it at the end, which TBH is not that different from OH building a bunker + medics inside their base or outside (if that becomes relevant somehow, sometime).
29 Aug 2019, 21:40 PM
#294
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

snip


So you can't stop acting like a child...

You really just don't understand the difference do you? No matter how many different people explain it to you it goes right over your head
29 Aug 2019, 21:45 PM
#295
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

wait wait u forgot the centaur rush (even cheaper than ostwind rush)

and were did u get the conversion ? Even doc ability like fuel drop cost a lot and require a risky position to convert mp to fuel

and really ? ostwind rush has access to only pgreen pioneer and mg 42 JUST THIS 3 UNITS, a centaur rush has access to IS, vicker,RE, bren, sniper, mortar emplacement, and at gun u can easily tell who gets the easier time in case of a rush

do tell me to what is bren IS and sniper gonna lose as they don0't have snare LV or gren

if ukf rush centaur and ostehr rush ostwind ukf wins hands down as the centaur even counter the ostwind
29 Aug 2019, 21:49 PM
#296
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



So you can't stop acting like a child...

You really just don't understand the difference do you? No matter how many different people explain it to you it goes right over your head
ok ok would it be different if we removed the nades and weapon upgrades and have them unlock both after a tier and then increase the cost the officers by 15 fuel and 70 mp ?
29 Aug 2019, 21:54 PM
#297
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

ok ok would it be different if we removed the nades and weapon upgrades and have them unlock both after a tier and then increase the cost the officers by 15 fuel ?


Yeah there might be a slight problem with paying 50 fuel just to unlock an MG and a "free" rifle squad....

They used to pay 50 fuel for all of LT tier, now you want them paying 50 for just LT and .50 cal? Are you on crack?
29 Aug 2019, 22:00 PM
#298
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Yeah there might be a slight problem with paying 50 fuel just to unlock an MG and a "free" rifle squad....

They used to pay 50 fuel for all of LT tier, now you want them paying 50 for just LT and .50 cal? Are you on crack?
ok then add the cost to somewhere else it gotta be early and late, so to major and second unlock ?
29 Aug 2019, 22:03 PM
#299
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

ok then add the cost to somewhere else it gotta be early and late, so to major and second unlock ?


So now im waiting til major for BARs? What on earth are you on about, I have no clue what you're going for here

You want fusi upgrades behind flak HQ? That what you're trying to say?
29 Aug 2019, 22:08 PM
#300
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



So now im waiting til major for BARs? What on earth are you on about, I have no clue what you're going for here

You want fusi upgrades behind flak HQ? That what you're trying to say?
u miss understood, u get nade at first unlock, then u get bar at second unlock, the price is divided in late and early tho exmaple: u got liut for normal 35 fuel, u now have acces to normal nades, the second unlock (be it LV or other chap) will cost 15 more fuel and 100-150 mp and u will get smoke bar and zook, then major will cost the remaining cost of the upgrades

obv u will lose the ability to double equip bar (zook u still can) or nerf the bar in some way

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