PPsh Upgrade

I saw many people complaining about how good LMG Grens and Assault Grens are early game so I have a sugestion:
I think the doctrinal PPsh package should be available at 1 CP it just comes out too late,Conscripts fare very bad vs LMG Grens,Assault Genadiers and even PanzerGrenadiers come out faster than this upgrade and when they do it's either retreatfest or massacrefest...I guess if PPsh came out faster it would resolve the "LMG Grens are OP" issue at least
This is just my opinion though,I await to see your point of view on this matter...

LMG anyway are OP. With PPsh or not, consripts still fails versus them.

LMG anyway are OP. With PPsh or not, consripts still fails versus them.

You are right,but this would give Conscripts a better chance against early LMG Grens,AssaultGrens etc...

I agree with this. It would give a window to conscripts maybe a bit before pgrens start to arrive where they can really put the PPsh to good effect.

Seems like a bad idea to balance the LMG against a doctrinal upgrade. My main concern is that 1 CP PPSH would be a bit OP against things that *aren't* LMG grens and that Soviet non-PPSH commanders are going to end up still more underused than they currently are.

Edit: I seem to find the PPSH makes conscripts way more cost effective than Pgrens, for instance. Having it come out earlier than the Pgrens is just going to mess things up.

I think, we need just to nerf LMG.

I agree with the two previous posters.

Balancing the LMG with a doctrinal ability just seems... No? An option would be to make the PPSH a global upgrade. It seems that Relic became Schizofrenic looking at the LMG from CoH1 and made it the other way around = a bit better than it should be.

Nerfing the LMG without doing anything with the (IMO) OP G43s would favour those doctrines instead. Maybe a slight decrease in long range accuracy allowing Conscripts to at least stall them? I'm not sure about this.

A different approach would perhaps be a redesign of the S-Minefield to redirect some OH muni spending? Now you need 80 munitions to even start building it but each square (out of four) only costs you 20 munitions and if you cancel the build it will only charge you for the squares that you put down. If Germans were able to lay down S-Mine squares instead of fields the Ostheer player would have something else to spend his munition on rather than just rifle nades/fausts and LMGs/flamers. Maybe decreasing the cost and a slight nerf to the Teller mine would make it more common as well but I'm not as sure on this one.

What do you think?

Im with Blovski on this one. It would make sense to make changes to the unit that seems to be the problem rather than to construct a new counter.

I actually think PPSH are at a pretty good spot right now.

I actually think PPSH are at a pretty good spot right now.

I would agree, I found that Penals are an amazing counter to LMG. Especially if you catch them walking and start firing first. Not to mention the flamethrower. It's a mincefest.

Haven't tried Penals in a while,will do so in my next playthrough ...

penals are in a very tricky position, 360mp is too much to shell out for them. would like to see them get either 1.5 armour for 360mp or stay where they are for 280mp.

so a t1 players can infantry spam with penals as dpses.

Yes tried Penals,it was disastrous...made two squads,one was rifle naded in the first 30 seconds(all six members died from ONE f*****g RNade and the two retreating ones were shot down by LMG Grens) and my opponent made a FlamHT when he saw that I went T1...so it was gg in the 15th minute