Why are p47s so garbage?
18 Aug 2019, 17:25 PM
#1
Posts: 3053
Pretty much title. I mean I guess it's better than nothing but I would hope a 240 muni ability that only targets tanks would be "better than nothing". I'd either like to see it changed to a strafe that's basically just the soviet airborne one that actually does damage (it does like more damage than the entire p47 loiter lmao) or at least make it so they hit their targets if it has to remain a loiter. I'll usually just pop it postgame to see how it does and it won't even kill a 3/4-ish health tigerwith the entire duration of the ability, meaning the whole thing does about the same damage as one stuka AT loiter pass (from both planes) on a good day.
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18 Aug 2019, 17:55 PM
#2
Posts: 528 | Subs: 1
And how will you land single pass strafe on non-brain damaged opponent without ram to hold tank in place?
Only thing p47 needs is cost from 240 to 200. Now it costs more than other loiters for no reason (but thats most usf abilities in general).
Only thing p47 needs is cost from 240 to 200. Now it costs more than other loiters for no reason (but thats most usf abilities in general).
18 Aug 2019, 18:14 PM
#3
Posts: 27
They are garbage because they were good at a point of time and punished players without AA. Because of that they are what they are now.
However we still have perimeter overwatch and stukka close airsupport among others.
Really interesting as it's the only loiter for USF.
However we still have perimeter overwatch and stukka close airsupport among others.
Really interesting as it's the only loiter for USF.
18 Aug 2019, 18:48 PM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I don't really see why they need to be so bad anymore. Previously when they were gigastrong, AA vehicles were all a piece of crap. I see no reason not to either reduce the cost or up the power of this loiter now that reliable AA is a thing. That or I'd say buff the accuracy. Right now their accuracy is pretty poor compared to stuka CAS.
18 Aug 2019, 18:55 PM
#5
Posts: 281
P47 are very strong, maybe abit too expensive thats it.
Best Ele/JT and panther spam counter USF has to offer, just dont use it vs p4
Best Ele/JT and panther spam counter USF has to offer, just dont use it vs p4
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18 Aug 2019, 19:59 PM
#6
Posts: 5279
I don't really see why they need to be so bad anymore. Previously when they were gigastrong, AA vehicles were all a piece of crap. I see no reason not to either reduce the cost or up the power of this loiter now that reliable AA is a thing. That or I'd say buff the accuracy. Right now their accuracy is pretty poor compared to stuka CAS.
Agreed. I'd much sooner have air power as a means to exploit lack of AA than a joke that doesn't even warrant getting AA.
#stalinwept
18 Aug 2019, 22:34 PM
#7
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Problem is also that Axis have way more AA on the field than Allies.
Every pintle MG can take down a plane, two tanks with pintle MGs are a decently reliable AA combination. Even a 222 that survived the early game will take down planes for you, there's actually not too much need for an Ostwind to do so.
Allies don't have pintle MGs. There are few AA units besides the dedicated ones. I think only the UKF UC with Bren upgrade can fire at planes and I've seen my UC take down enemy planes, but it's suboptimal since it's not turreted.
This in general makes Allied planes last not as long and therefore effectively worth much less.
Every pintle MG can take down a plane, two tanks with pintle MGs are a decently reliable AA combination. Even a 222 that survived the early game will take down planes for you, there's actually not too much need for an Ostwind to do so.
Allies don't have pintle MGs. There are few AA units besides the dedicated ones. I think only the UKF UC with Bren upgrade can fire at planes and I've seen my UC take down enemy planes, but it's suboptimal since it's not turreted.
This in general makes Allied planes last not as long and therefore effectively worth much less.
18 Aug 2019, 23:29 PM
#8
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
. I think only the UKF UC with Bren upgrade can fire at planes and I've seen my UC take down enemy planes, but it's suboptimal since it's not turreted.
This in general makes Allied planes last not as long and therefore effectively worth much less.
Centaur?
18 Aug 2019, 23:43 PM
#9
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Centaur?
I think his point was that you don't have to build AA units to get AA as axis. He mentioned not needing Ostwind so i think thats why no mention of centaur
19 Aug 2019, 00:04 AM
#10
Posts: 3053
Problem is also that Axis have way more AA on the field than Allies.
Every pintle MG can take down a plane, two tanks with pintle MGs are a decently reliable AA combination. Even a 222 that survived the early game will take down planes for you, there's actually not too much need for an Ostwind to do so.
Allies don't have pintle MGs. There are few AA units besides the dedicated ones. I think only the UKF UC with Bren upgrade can fire at planes and I've seen my UC take down enemy planes, but it's suboptimal since it's not turreted.
This in general makes Allied planes last not as long and therefore effectively worth much less.
Hence another reason why I would prefer a strafe. At least you can make it work by physically blocking their armor with a sherman or whatever or just making him choose between running into your strafe or going towards you AT guns etc. Really shitty to see their tanks do more damage to your anti-tank loiter than the other way around. US does have pintle mgs but tends to have less of them since it's only on shermans, and they seem less effective 1-1 anyway when compared to the 42, which every axis tank and their dog will have.
UC shooting down planes once in a blue moon is a fun time lol.
Centaur?
True but that's an actual AA unit (that still has other, more important, uses too) whereas literally almost every axis tank has AA in the form of pintle 42s.
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19 Aug 2019, 01:47 AM
#11
Posts: 1954
I'd rather see the cost dropped to around 100 than have it buffed a lot. It got better when they moved the rockets in closer but it still misses a lot. It's terrible compared to Sector Assault. The AT is much worse and has no AI, but they both cost 250. If the cost was around 100 then it would be the equivalent of Fear Propaganda for tanks. It still wouldn't kill anything but people would probably move their tanks out of the circle on the off chance that one of them would get damaged.
19 Aug 2019, 04:13 AM
#12
Posts: 3053
I'd rather see the cost dropped to around 100 than have it buffed a lot. It got better when they moved the rockets in closer but it still misses a lot. It's terrible compared to Sector Assault. The AT is much worse and has no AI, but they both cost 250. If the cost was around 100 then it would be the equivalent of Fear Propaganda for tanks. It still wouldn't kill anything but people would probably move their tanks out of the circle on the off chance that one of them would get damaged.
IMO that'd be kinda OP though. It'd be too spammable for how long it lasts, even considering that it gets shot down so much. I'd rather see a 100 muni rocket strafe just like the soviet airborne one. I understand you have no t34s as USF to ram, but there's still ways to make it work without ramming. They could even toy with making it a little bit faster if it's given to USF; the Wehrmacht CAS commander one (the strafe) is pretty fast IIRC.
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19 Aug 2019, 07:34 AM
#13
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Centaur?
I think his point was that you don't have to build AA units to get AA as axis. He mentioned not needing Ostwind so i think thats why no mention of centaur
Yes exactly, thank you.
SOV and UKF have dedicated AA units as the only option, USF have Sherman pintles but often not enough of them. And the Soviet M5 half track is also pretty useless late game besides shooting down planes (just like the OKW and USF ones) because it will die in an instant if it comes close to the front line.
OST and UKF are the only factions with viable late game AA, and OST does not really need it. And OKW has it's T4 to cover a decent area of the map as well.
That in total makes planes with same stats and costs perform worse for Allies than Axis, and it also hurts the P47. If one of two planes of your 240 mun AT ability get taken out before they can do much because of 120 mun worth of AI pintles, there's something wrong.
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