Soviet September patch discussion

Again with the least survivable , it’s not stop ur bias

The moment gunner dies, maxim is wiped.

The only 2 units in whole game maxims are more survivable then other MGs are snipers and mortars.

Against direct fire and small arms especially, they are indeed least survivable one due to deathloop alone.
Was deathloop gone, they'd be more survivable, but magical teleporting guns belong to everyone else but soviets in this game.

The moment gunner dies, maxim is wiped.

The only 2 units in whole game maxims are more survivable then other MGs are snipers and mortars.

Against direct fire and small arms especially, they are indeed least survivable one due to deathloop alone.
Was deathloop gone, they'd be more survivable, but magical teleporting guns belong to everyone else but soviets in this game.

again that’s only during retreat, do u think a mortar will wipe a 6 men or 4 man more easily ?

not any quicker than LMG grens STG volks BARrifles and BRENtommies... in fact it still comes out later than all of these scary bunches...

I don't think you realize that 7 men cons are pretty scary at earlier timing than they come now.

do u think a mortar will wipe a 6 men or 4 man more easily ?

the 6 man machinegun with the deathloop...

almost veteran player with a fair amount of soviet games in his sleeve can attest to the maxim being very easy and reliable to get a wipe out of...

I don't think you realize that 7 men cons are pretty scary at earlier timing than they come now.

and LMG-42s STG-44s BARs and Brens dont?

i do like the idea of replacing it with a vickers though... the maxim after all is a vickers machinegun... albeit on wheels... later in ww2 tripod maxims were a common sight aswell... soo replacing the maxim with a vickers could be doable so long as its reskinned into the soviet olive green
.

I don't find it a realistic approach on replacing units at this point in the game. Like when people say replace raketens or in this case maxim.

So somehow death loop affect maxim performance even if u don’t retreat... wow

the 6 man machinegun with the deathloop...

almost veteran player with a fair amount of soviet games in his sleeve can attest to the maxim being very easy and reliable to get a wipe out of...




and LMG-42s STG-44s BARs and Brens dont?

Do you fight BARS and Brens as soviets? No.

LMG 42 4 men squad
STG 44s 5 men squad

Soviets:

6 men penals
7 men cons at earlier timing soon
6 men mg
6 men mortar
6 men field gun
T70 murder machine

This is extremely hard as Ostheer, especially vs earlier 7 men cons.

Do I need to continue?

So somehow death loop affect maxim performance even if u don’t retreat... wow

doesnt make it any more difficult to wipe... how about playing as sov T2 soo you can see how people pull off maxim wipes on you soo u can understand how easy it is to wipe a maxim?

I don't find it a realistic approach on replacing units at this point in the game. Like when people say replace raketens or in this case maxim.

would it be possible to make the maxim gunner untargettable during retreat until its brought down to 1 man? that would most certainly fix the deathloop

Do you fight BARS and Brens as soviets? No.

LMG 42 4 men squad
STG 44s 5 men squad

with far superior RA and higher DPS unless in cover

6 men penals

penals need to be reworked

6 men mg

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

no

6 men mortar

can i have the ROF of the ost mortar in exchange for a 4 man mortar team?

6 men field gun

the zis is good... but it isnt the best AT gun

T70 murder machine

the T-70 was never soo strong as to being oppressive... remember sov had the worst winrate even with the T-70 murder machine all the way till penals were buffed to an overwhelming degree... reworking penals should have been included in the scope of the patch aswell but i have no idea as to why the balance team failed to rework them...

This is extremely hard as Ostheer, especially vs earlier 7 men cons.

Do I need to continue?

lmao

much earlier access to LMG-42
best HMG ingame and available at T0
fastest firing mortar ingame
best at gun at the role of AT
solid medium (P4)
very powerful AA/AI unit (ostwind)
wipe machine (brummbar)
4v4 wipe machine (panzerwerfer)
solid tank hunter (Panther)
AT unit with strong AI nade (panzergrenadiers)

do i need to continue?

again that’s only during retreat, do u think a mortar will wipe a 6 men or 4 man more easily ?

Please stop your sophistic games of words. Deathloop exist. When you trying retreat it don't give you to safe your squad and totaly broke main mechanic of game - always retreat in danger. The most scariest thing to make daethloop - flames nades, flame abilities, flameht. But even without flames while HMG retreating if lucky shot hit to gunner ir will be almost dead HMG. More often you can see this when P4 dive retreating maxim and kill gunner. All crew stops, clumping, trying puck up maxim back, get new shot, gunner dies again --->dead maxim. While other HMG have teleport to prevent such thing. You also can see it when maxim trying retreat from big blob - one lucky bullet, maxim stops, blob move closer and kill other crewmembers.

Yes but it does not have lower durability during the time u don’t retreat and even then the 2 more men help in retreat

Ok if then why was ur argument that 1 less man would make the mg weaker , in ur opinion the increase of men change nothing so the inverse would hold true

Ok if then why was ur argument that 1 less man would make the mg weaker , in ur opinion the increase of men change nothing so the inverse would hold true

because not only would it be wiped more easily than the regular 4 man MG on retreat... but it would also be easier to kill when its not on retreat...

but do understand that a 5 man maxim would have the same retreat survivability as a 6 man maxim a 7 man maxim... even a 10 man maxim... once the death loop starts... that MG is going to die end of story... regardless of models


the increased nonretreating 6 man survivability of the maxim is completely offset by the lack of survivability on retreat... since the number of models are USELESS

But why ?u said number of men does not matter , so his solition is valid

people complaining about 6 and 7 men squad are they for real? Listen this game has been designed and played liek this for years now, I think it's time for you sit down and actually learn about it and why Gens are only 4 men vs 6 men conscripts.

If this was a ever an issue you would hear about it more often in streams, why do you think cons were added a 7th man if this is so hard to deal against as ostheer?

a squad of SEVEN, do you see that anywhere in the game? Think about it...

But why ?u said number of men does not matter , so his solition is valid

on retreat


ill simplify....


retreat = model numbers are useless

not on retreat = model numbers matter


maxim vs vickers/mg34/42
survivability in fighting = maxim > vickers/mg34/42

survivability on retreat = vickers/mg34/42 > maxim

probability of getting wiped while fighting = vickers/mg34/42 > maxim

probability of getting wiped on retreat = maxim > vickers/mg34/42



now lets put the 5 or 4 man maxim with vickers stats

survivability in fighting = maxim = vickers/mg34/42 (5 man maxim fares slightly better)

survivability on retreat = vickers/mg34/42 > maxim (maxim gets wiped regardless of models)

probability of getting wiped while fighting = vickers/mg34/42 = maxim
(5 man maxim fares slightly better)

probability of getting wiped on retreat = maxim > vickers/mg34/42 (maxim gets wiped regardless of models)

Oh so u do understand that while not retreating it has more durability right ?

Oh so u do understand that while not retreating it has more durability right ?

yes but now we have an MG with the same (4 man) or slightly better (5 man) combat survivability and NONEXISTENT retreat survivability...

Oh so u do understand that while not retreating it has more durability right ?

Looks like or you trolling or you don't understand problem of maxim. What worse i don't know.

Simple example special for you:

Mg-42 and maxim against sniper--->maxim will live longer due more mans in crew.

Mg-42 and maxim retreating against kv-8 ----> maxim always have lower chances to safely escape due deathloop.

Nerf the Maxims survivability for better surpression.

Why is this change hurtful for many to bear.

It is the intention of avoiding spam but in the process of making it viable.

Beginning with 5 man and add more suppression accordingly.

If none wants that, why even discuss other solution when this is clearly the only proper way.


The only deathloop there would be is constant ongoing discussions about "What to do about Maxim".

Because that isn't the only fix. It would simply make the deathloop even deadlier. Unfortunately the 6 men have to be accounted for when balancing the unit because removal would be detrimental because of the death loop.

Unless you can bolster durability in another way like damage modifiers or perhaps to think outside the box with something like increased range (longe range means further from the fight means enemy has to walk further under fire to frontally assault the maxim means they might actually eat dirt before being in grenade range) but imo the best way to make it less attractive to spam would be improving it, increasing damage AND build time, while also making cons more attractive so that they an fill in the holes that slow maxim production brimgs