What would you do about the 120mm mortar?

Howdy!

As of right now I think most of the units in the game have a role in at least one game mode. (perhaps excluding partisans) They either complement a certain playstyle, make it unique entirely or the units are just strong on their own.

Even underutilized units have interesting concepts such as the artillery officer which basically provides endless panzerwerfer barrages or the B4 that either does absolutely nothing or wins the match in one shot.

However there is one unit that doesn't have a game mode or a situation it can shine in and calling it in is always an attempt to throw the match: the Soviet 120mm mortar. The damage and RoF of the unit leave much to be desired while the high price often makes them difficult to fit into a build order. In addition the price closely resembles the price of the superior non-doctrinal USF pack howizer.

I'm curious to know what would you like to see changed in the unit to make it a tempting option to use in a specific situation or game mode. I think the unit has an iconic sound and impact so it is unfortunate it sees so little use.

(Disclaimer: I remember the pre-nerf times when it had a better RoF and the instagib-a-support-weapon-for-free Precision Strike and I do not wish to see such frustrating game mechanics return)

Now when it hits, boy does it do magic. But the problem is this: it almost never hits lol. Now I don't know how this works with in game mechanics and adjusting its stats, but it wouldn't hurt it having better targeting or something? I mean, it is expensive...

Reducing cost to 300 manpower would help allot already.

Nothing to stats, just adjust the cost if needed.

Not sure what the fuss is about the 120mm mortar since it never seems to wipe simple grenadiers for me on direct hits. And those direct hits are once in a blue moon, it deals damage but never gets kills unless you use barrage on static units but even then it will most likely miss even with vision lmao.

Saying that I think it does its job well enough but it's a bit too expensive.

Nothing to stats, just adjust the cost if needed.

Just to add, all mortars are weaker in current days, so i don't think the 120mm is too far away from where it should be.

Not sure what the fuss is about the 120mm mortar since it never seems to wipe simple grenadiers for me on direct hits. And those direct hits are once in a blue moon, it deals damage but never gets kills unless you use barrage on static units but even then it will most likely miss even with vision lmao.

Saying that I think it does its job well enough but it's a bit too expensive.

Just like other mortars it can't kill models in one hit, but its area of effect is 50% wider.

Compared to the Ostheer mortar, the scatter value is the same, but the reload time is 50% longer.

Compared to the 82mm Soviet mortar, the scatter value is 25% higher and the reload time is 20% longer.

In reality the scatter of the 120mm is not that bad, because it has 25% longer range than other mortars. The actual scatter should be inbetween the Ostheer and Soviet mortar I think.

It´s not horrible if you use it on small lane maps like Road to Kharkov or Minsk. On most other maps it´s unuseable because of how slow it is. It´s also pretty funny that the last change to it was reducing the crew to 5.

My idea would be to increase crew back to 6 to bring it in line with any other Soviet team weapon and allow it to scale into late game. Then to slightly improve set up time and reload so it doesn´t have this insane delay anymore. Contrary to what others claim I find the damage pretty good (compared to all the other mortars and OKW leig). The problem is to get the mortar to fire in time. It´s also very frustrating to use at the moment because of that.

It´s also pretty funny that the last change to it was reducing the crew to 5.

My idea would be to increase crew back to 6 to bring it in line with any other Soviet team weapon and allow it to scale into late game.

The original intent was to let the 120mm decrew at 1 men, but that was deemed impossible, so they lowered the crew to 5 men instead:

"The 120mm is losing a member of its crew to [...] compensate for its ability to operate at one man."

It´s not horrible if you use it on small lane maps like Road to Kharkov or Minsk. On most other maps it´s unuseable because of how slow it is. It´s also pretty funny that the last change to it was reducing the crew to 5.

My idea would be to increase crew back to 6 to bring it in line with any other Soviet team weapon and allow it to scale into late game. Then to slightly improve set up time and reload so it doesn´t have this insane delay anymore. Contrary to what others claim I find the damage pretty good (compared to all the other mortars and OKW leig). The problem is to get the mortar to fire in time. It´s also very frustrating to use at the moment because of that.

Because prior to all mortars nerfs, it was semi bad. It looks less bad now when they are all weaker.

It´s also pretty funny that the last change to it was reducing the crew to 5.

This was done because the 120mm is the only mortar that can still work with 1 model, rather than 2. Reducing it to 5 actually brought it in line with other support weapons, since other support weapons would decrew after losing 5 models.

120mm should work like a *looks around* Pack Howitzer.

Let me explain. This thing has high damage, low rate of fire and an abysmal set up time.

A directional set up, weapon arc included, would reward positioning and avoid unwanted refacings. Rate of fire should be tweaked a bit considering its damage and blast radius.

The unit itself works fine, only hampered by its clumsyness and cost

I've been using it lately and it has reap great results in the form of wipes against low health ostheer units clumped behind cover or by damaging okw static units so they can't fight mine.

Just to add, all mortars are weaker in current days, so i don't think the 120mm is too far away from where it should be.

+1

It's just too expensive right now. It's still great against fortifications/teamweapons and occasionally mercs infantry when it actually hits and it has a really good range too right?

How to play aganst 251 rush as sov?

How to play aganst 251 rush as sov?

Build a mine

Build a mine

and dont tier 2

I'd like to point out that its rounds for free fire and barrages are different.
The barrage one had its close AoE value reduced a few years ago, but the free fire version wasn't touched. That discrepancy should be fixed.

How to play aganst 251 rush as sov?

Guards.

The consensus seems to have clearly formed around a reasonable cost reduction. It would definitely make the unit more accessible since all of the doctrines that include the 120mm mortar also have other manpower heavy call-ins like shocks, guards, dushkas and peashooter AT guns. In addition, when made more affordable players can call it in more often hopefully making it easier to evaluate its performance from the Allied and Axis point of view.

I never paid much attention to it but the popcap of the 120mm is definitely inconsistent with other artillery units at whopping 10 popcap a piece. Using several of these mortars would tie a heavy tanks worth of popcap into 2 units and considering the current performance that is quite ridiculous.

For comparison late game artillery like the panzerwerfer cost 12 popcap while early game options like the Soviet standard mortar costs 6 popcap and the USF pack howizer costs 8 popcap.

I'd argue the popcap reduction is also warranted either from the balance point of view or from the perspective of making the popcap of early game indirect fire consistent.

120mm should work like a *looks around* Pack Howitzer.

Let me explain. This thing has high damage, low rate of fire and an abysmal set up time.

A directional set up, weapon arc included, would reward positioning and avoid unwanted refacings. Rate of fire should be tweaked a bit considering its damage and blast radius.

The unit itself works fine, only hampered by its clumsyness and cost

I've been using it lately and it has reap great results in the form of wipes against low health ostheer units clumped behind cover or by damaging okw static units so they can't fight mine.

This is a great point. I wonder how much of the potential DPS of the 120mm mortar is lost during the constant refacing and setting up. I think most mortars are a bit clumsy especially regarding their smoke barrages which can take ages to activate but the issue is definitely highlighted in the 120mm.

(also especially the USF mortar seems to be prone to being completely broken when using the smoke barrage and after that it becomes unresponsive but that is another topic for another day)


Other ways to change the unit could be an increase in utility or an increase in doctrine synergy. For example one of the 120mm mortar doctrines - shock army tactics I believe - also includes shocks and PPSH conscripts.

I think the CQC nature of the commander would benefit if the 120mm mortar smoke barraged was replaced with the creeping smoke barrage of the British mortar pit. That would enable shocks and cons to traverse the battlefield under the cover of smoke reducing manpower bleed on advance. In addition the Creeping smoke barrage would require coordination and good timing while not being an outright damage buff for the mortar.

Guards.

More specific double mg with mass ostruppen locking both fuels into 251. Pretty nasty build. Just guards are enough?