I just don´t get the usf lieutenant tier.

lieutenant is useless really, has no impact when he comes, a bazooka when there is no vehicles present.
m20 is fine and it has always been there

then we have the trouble maker after the patch, the stuart.
nerfed into oblivion. cant kill infantry, cant kill vehicles.
stun shot nerfed into blind makes it worse price/performance than the ostheer 222.

and ofc 50.cal which is the sole reason you go lieutenant

but lets compare it to the captain tier.

at gun, always worth it into the late game.

then we have the holy duo, captain and halftrack.
if your ahead on fuel, you just make captain and increase production with his ability and bam, you have a halftrack before ostheer even has upgraded to tier 2.

also homing missile pack howitzer is always a treat.

so if you go captain, all you need really is the 50. cal machinegun

my 50 cent

I’m sorry if the Stuart now is not a better t-70

Doesn't Lieutenant have the .50 cal, m20 and AA HT? You say that both the .50 cal and m20 are good, so what exactly is your confusion?

lieutenant is useless really, has no impact when he comes, a bazooka when there is no vehicles present.

Woe is to you, you get a free unit that can have a bazooka, what exactly do you want it to have when it comes @ 3 minutes into the game, rail rifles?

Doesn't Lieutenant have the .50 cal, m20 and AA HT? You say that both the .50 cal and m20 are good, so what exactly is your confusion?




Woe is to you, you get a free unit that can have a bazooka, what exactly do you want it to have when it comes @ 3 minutes into the game, rail rifles?

LT tier has the stuart not the AA ht

Lt gets grenades so hes a bit of a better fighter than captain, but he has less impact b/c you don't get the bar without research

It is in kind of a tough spot though, really just because you need the ATG late game many times so I think this tier is best with some kind of commander help like airboure, rangers for bazookas, call in vehicle so you can get lt and cpt with a light vehicle.

Probably doesn't need changes though, you have 3 good units and a stuart, thats the only unit that might seem a bit weak

LT tier has the stuart not the AA ht

Lt gets grenades so hes a bit of a better fighter than captain, but he has less impact b/c you don't get the bar without research

It is in kind of a tough spot though, really just because you need the ATG late game many times so I think this tier is best with some kind of commander help like airboure, rangers for bazookas, call in vehicle so you can get lt and cpt with a light vehicle.

Probably doesn't need changes though, you have 3 good units and a stuart, thats the only unit that might seem a bit weak

I think the tier is fine. LT as a unit really sucks(I already have enough riflemen ok lelic, christ), but the m20 is good, .50cal a must have and the stuart isn't what it used to be but it gets too much hate on the forums IMO. It will kill any axis LV except for the Puma but thats typical.

I think the tier is fine. LT as a unit really sucks(I already have enough riflemen ok lelic, christ), but the m20 is good, .50cal a must have and the stuart isn't what it used to be but it gets too much hate on the forums IMO. It will kill any axis LV except for the Puma but thats typical.

The Stuart seems expensive for what you get. The AI isn't great, especially against units in cover. The sight is only 35, not like the Puma's 50. Sure, the AT is good enough for a Luchs or flamer HT, but that still isn't a compelling reason to buy it. More people would use it if it was "good" at something, but it isn't.

Here are the notes from the last major change to the Stuart:

Stuart

We felt that the Stuart was over-performing in its role as an anti-infantry unit and as a strong light vehicle counter. Furthermore, its stun rounds allowed it to hunt down light vehicles that were designed to counter it. Thus, we have made the following changes to solidify its role as primarily an anti-light vehicle unit.

Manpower cost increased from 240 to 270
Main gun damage vs infantry set to -25%
Main gun penetration increased from 65/50/45 to 75/60/55
MG Accuracy from 0.6/0.45/0.25 to 0.4/0.3/0.16667 (Hull & Coaxial)
MG Incremental accuracy from 1.04 to 1 (Hull & Coaxial).
Stun rounds only disables weapons and sight. Does not affect movement.
Veterancy requirements reduced from 1170/2340/4680 to 870/1740/3480

Instead of giving it just one or two nerfs, they gave it five. Changing the vet requirements is a joke when they nerfed everthing else about it.

you dont buy a stuart to counter a puma, one buys a puma to help counter the stuart. the stuart means AI vehicles cant rape you with impunity. when it could pop models AND obliterate any vehcle it was OP. no unit should be a no brainer and the old stuart was. if you want an AI vehicle usf has many

I’m sorry if the Stuart now is not a better t-70

Better t70? What are you smoking lmao? I mean, I don't have any problems with it, but it is in no way comparable to the t70 (mostly because they kinda fill different roles and t70 is definitely IMO best in class overall for anti-inf, while stuart is more of a generalist, so comparing them doesn't even make that much sense).

Copied from a previous post I made about USF officers. I think it applies here and would help delineate Captain from Lieutenant regardless of what else comes in their tier.

“I’ve been doing a study on WWII infantry tables of organization and equipment for the US, British and German forces. Real US infantry platoons had one sniper rifle that was unallocated to a specific man and kept as part of the Platoon Headquarters section with the Lieutenant. Additionally, there were no Thompsons at the platoon level and the Lieutenant himself would’ve had an M1 carbine.

At the Company level, the Captain has access to six unallocated Thompsons, six unallocated BARs and five unallocated Bazookas. He would also have been armed with an M1 carbine as would several other members of the Company Headquarters element unlike the Platoon HQ which would’ve all had M1 Garand rifles. Additionally, support elements in the weapons platoon of the company had M1919A4 or M1919A6 Machineguns and would be dispatched at the discrediting of the company commander (the Captain).

Considering all of that, here is how I would rework the USF officers.

Lieutenant: 5 man squad with 3 M1 Garands on Riflemen models, 1 M1 paratrooper carbine on the Lieutenant himself and 1 M1C sniper rifle on a Rifleman model. The squad has better vision than a regular Riflemen squad and has access to regular grenades and smoke grenades when teched and starts with an AT rifle grenade shot at Vet 0. No upgrades are available but can still take up to two weapons from the weapon racks. No changes to abilities or veterancy. This unit functions like a superior rifleman squad that can snipe at long range like a pathfinder squad, but with only one sniper rifle. It would also have less overlap with dedicated SMG units like Rangers and Paratroopers.

Captain: 5 man squad with 2 Riflemen models with M1 Garands, 1 Captain model with a Paratrooper stat M1 Carbine and 2 Rear Echelon models with the weaker Rear Echelon M1 Carbines. Abilities stay the same but has two mutually exclusive upgrade options. An M1919A6 upgrade for 70 munitions where one of the Rear Echelon models gains the LMG making the squad a dedicated long range squad that is good at supporting against infantry and a double bazooka upgrade for 100 munitions that gives the two Riflemen the Bazookas making the squad a good bazooka support squad but has almost no anti infantry ability. Squad abilities and veterancy remains the same. The squad can still upgrade with weapons from the weapon racks and still gains smoke grenades from the grenade tech.

I think these changes would make USF officers more unique and have better defined roles as well as encourage side teching to both LT and Captain and also better reflects the real US table of organization and equipment.“

The Stuart seems expensive for what you get. The AI isn't great, especially against units in cover. The sight is only 35, not like the Puma's 50. Sure, the AT is good enough for a Luchs or flamer HT, but that still isn't a compelling reason to buy it. More people would use it if it was "good" at something, but it isn't.

Here are the notes from the last major change to the Stuart:

Stuart

We felt that the Stuart was over-performing in its role as an anti-infantry unit and as a strong light vehicle counter. Furthermore, its stun rounds allowed it to hunt down light vehicles that were designed to counter it. Thus, we have made the following changes to solidify its role as primarily an anti-light vehicle unit.

Manpower cost increased from 240 to 270
Main gun damage vs infantry set to -25%
Main gun penetration increased from 65/50/45 to 75/60/55
MG Accuracy from 0.6/0.45/0.25 to 0.4/0.3/0.16667 (Hull & Coaxial)
MG Incremental accuracy from 1.04 to 1 (Hull & Coaxial).
Stun rounds only disables weapons and sight. Does not affect movement.
Veterancy requirements reduced from 1170/2340/4680 to 870/1740/3480

Instead of giving it just one or two nerfs, they gave it five. Changing the vet requirements is a joke when they nerfed everthing else about it.

Back then Stuart and AEC were anti-everything so both needed a big nerf to make the game less about LV wars. Also back then all the units got basically overnerfed. Like the Dshk as a great example. They seem to have learned from that though. The recent nerfs were less drastic.

wall of text

gameplay >>> historical accuracy

Back then Stuart and AEC were anti-everything so both needed a big nerf to make the game less about LV wars. Also back then all the units got basically overnerfed. Like the Dshk as a great example. They seem to have learned from that though. The recent nerfs were less drastic.

I just watched a replay of VonIvan that included him using a Stuart. He got good use out of it - stopping bleed from the Luchs in mid game and helping against attacks by infantry on his flanks in late game. That was in a 1v1. I think part of my bias against it is that I usually play 2's, 3's or 4's where the concentration of AT is usually higher. I might try it again in 2's. The window when it could be helpful in 4's seems like it would still be too small to be useful.

I agree that the balance team is doing a much better job of nerfs, when needed, in the last couple of patches.

Doesn't Lieutenant have the .50 cal, m20 and AA HT? You say that both the .50 cal and m20 are good, so what exactly is your confusion?

Apparently hasn't played USF in like a year lmao.

I just watched a replay of VonIvan that included him using a Stuart. He got good use out of it - stopping bleed from the Luchs in mid game and helping against attacks by infantry on his flanks in late game. That was in a 1v1. I think part of my bias against it is that I usually play 2's, 3's or 4's where the concentration of AT is usually higher. I might try it again in 2's. The window when it could be helpful in 4's seems like it would still be too small to be useful.

I agree that the balance team is doing a much better job of nerfs, when needed, in the last couple of patches.

I actually like the stuart a lot. Decent enough against infantry and it's a great light vehicle counter. Not super useful in teamgames just due to limited window of opportunity though, like pretty much any other light.

Apparently hasn't played USF in like a year lmao.


I actually like the stuart a lot. Decent enough against infantry and it's a great light vehicle counter. Not super useful in teamgames just due to limited window of opportunity though, like pretty much any other light.

The LT tier only seems really useful for the .50 cal and if you're trying to rush to Major and quickly get a Sherman because you'll get an MG for blob control without spending fuel for a supression platform which USF desperately needs most of the time especially against OKW that tends to out number your units for the first half of the game. I actually like the Stuart too on it's own but it's a 70 fuel vehicle so buying it will set your tech to Major back quite a bit. It works best under two conditions: 1) OKW deploys the medical HT instead of the Mechanized HT so you probably won't see Pumas for a while, 2) OST is spamming stuff like Scout Cars and Assault Grens without snare equipped Grens. I think the price of the Stuart is fine and it's AT abilities are fine but it would be nice if it was better against infantry especially because of it's substantial fuel cost.

You have the best or the 2nd best MG locked behind lieutenant, a free squad with a thompson, m20 AND a generalist LV that could be better but still is good enough.

What else do you want? Or is this because Captain has OP pak howie so u can sit down with 0 micro ?
Who needs AT guns when u have Jacksons LUL