how to: Level 100 German Play

You are the one who has this whole strat laid out on paper, why don't you show us a replay of it.
Maxim might take super long to pin, it suppresses super fast. And I though all the high level players though the mg42 was shit now. I sure is easy as hell to flank in buildings now

because i have extreme confidence that they'd be wasting their time.

Best way to figure out a counter is to play that way (i.e. MGs in every building, PGrens -> P4s and Tiger) and see how your opponent (in automatch or basic match) counters it.

You are the one who has this whole strat laid out on paper, why don't you show us a replay of it.
Maxim might take super long to pin, it suppresses super fast. And I though all the high level players though the mg42 was shit now. I sure is easy as hell to flank in buildings now

http://www.coh2.org/replays/9475/typicalgermaneasymode
have at it

Seriously, if you want to cheese up as Germans, either spam Ostruppen and get a quick flamer halftrack or get 4-5 grens, give them all LMGs, get a halftrack to reinforce and then add P-IVs. Those are both exceptionally powerful strategies.

Your strat's reliance on MGs early makes it ineffectual against a decent player. I was beating MG spammers back when they were incredi-OP. Now, I feel confident dealing with MGs in buildings with just molotovs, and with just MGs and PGs you have no cost-effective way to dislodge conscripts in a building.

Insofar as a counter, the obvious ones are either 2-3 cons-> M3flamer + sniper + guards or 5 cons -> Molotovs -> Tier 2 -> T-70s or T-34s for P-gren munching. Add a maxim and an AT gun when you have the manpower. Or possibly shocks if the Pgrens are giving you a headache.

Alternatively, tier 1 + tier 2 into heavy vehicle of choice for the sniper, zis, maxim, mines combo which will bleed the hell out of your p-grens, constantly make your MGs relocate and leave the P-IVs constantly repairing due to mines.

Insofar as a counter, the obvious ones are either 2-3 cons-> M3flamer + sniper + guards or 5 cons -> Molotovs -> Tier 2 -> T-70s or T-34s for P-gren munching. Add a maxim and an AT gun when you have the manpower. Or possibly shocks if the Pgrens are giving you a headache.

germans always have hard counters to all your units while you have a 50/50 chance of hard countering theirs.

because i have extreme confidence that they'd be wasting their time.

sure, on paper you can say
'i'll use conscripts to counter his MG in buildings; throwing molotovs'

but what really happens is

your conscript squad waltz up

flanking with another squad

it gets suppressed

manages to crawl to the building

throws a molotov

the other squad throws theirs

one retreats, because its got 2 models left due to MG close proximity fire

German player leaves the building
retreats their MG

makes the existing squad run off with a vet 2 PG squad that's been fed vet slowly throughout the entire match with useless conscript meat sacks who carry molotovs

what looks good on paper rarely works in COH2, delay lag, RNG, conscripts being useless and getting stuck in terrain during OORAH, random MG42 instant supress
its just a mess

I actually, only show one squad for first burst, and exit Mg42's range . Oorah my way with second to mg42 and chuck in molotov. (Mg42 is facing other way, and it takes a while to reposition, so no mg42 fire on second squad).
If i cannot hide anywhere I retreat second squad, If i can i hide behind building. Rarely losing more than 1-2 cons.

By that time my 3rd Con squad will arrive and that MG42 is toast, if not supported by Grens.

Sorry

so I guess you tried playing with this strat and won a lot of games with it, right?

germans always have hard counters to all your units while you have a 50/50 chance of hard countering theirs.

It's a matter of timing. The M3flamer *will* kill an MG if you have no grens and are going for a scout car only as a reaction, at which point, you're down 240mp and possibly have a stolen MG to deal with. By the time the scout car gets out, conscripts will have AT nades and you won't be able to run down the M3 or snipers. The sniper will bleed your PGs to pieces, and you'll have no on-field reinforcement.

Against the conscript build, you have nothing to get conscripts out of buildings (bundlenades are too expensive, not that great against buildings and can be dodged), and the early MGs are likely to get stolen or forced off until your pgrens arrive. At which point, the conscripts can stall you out from the buildings and keep cutting you off from fuel until the T-70 comes out and mauls you.

It's not a matter of hard counters but of semi-competent usage. MGs are fairly easy for a decent player to counter. P-grens are not that difficult for a decent player to counter. P-IVs require a level of caution against both Soviet tiers if you don't have a huge fuel advantage and supplementary AT.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/9475/typicalgermaneasymode
have at it

Just my opinion-
You got Molotovs before seeing the first german unit, delaying your next conscript squad. After the third conscript you got medics, T2 and a mortar, which could have been replaced at that point by two more conscripts- at which point your conscripts could have baited the MGs in the buildings two to one and flanked with suppression at max range or no suppression at all. If he had been forced off the field, he would have no way to get back with just MGs and PGrens in a map with so many buildings.

I actually, only show one squad for first burst, and exit Mg42's range . Oorah my way with second to mg42 and chuck in molotov. (Mg42 is facing other way, and it takes a while to reposition, so no mg42 fire on second squad).
If i cannot hide anywhere I retreat second squad, If i can i hide behind building. Rarely losing more than 1-2 cons.

By that time my 3rd Con squad will arrive and that MG42 is toast, if not supported by Grens.

Sorry

bullshit, thats a "perfect scenario"
No plan survives the first contact intact
sorry

before you read this: this is a thread calling germans easymode.

choose a Doctrine with tigers.

then, build t1, and start spamming MG42's. place them in buildings throughout the map! don't worry about capping!

when sufficient mg levels have been reached, tech and start spamming PG's!
use the PG's to chase down conscripts squads, cap, and make sure he can't get out of his base territory!
move your MG's up with your PG's for MAXIMUM SS PANZER DIVISION TACTICAL BASE PIN MANEUVER KNIGHTS CROSS SARGENT EXTREME CROSS HOLDER OF THE SWORDS AND THE OAK LEAVES EXTREME

SUCH HISTORICAL ACCURACY!

I) I feel the game is relatively well balanced. Not denying there are parts that need further adjustment but generally it´s balanced.

The thing that is not good is that the Russian player is forced into boring gameplay. Meaning EITHER defense weapons OR snipers, scout cars etc. EITHER SU-85 OR T-34. Building more than two buildings can throw you back in the tech race. Thus Russians are no fun to play for me.

However if you use Conscript spam right or spam Maxims and Zis with Shocks, any Russian player can just run around the map and swarm the MG42s. In fact it has become a standard procedure to run up to German MGs get suppressed only 5m in front of it and throw a Molotov, then watch how it burns.

Russians aren´t underpowered - they are just incredibly boring to play.


II) What are you coming with historical accuracy? Historical accuracy means your body gets split into two parts when running into an MG that fires 1250 round per minute. Russian tanks are stronger than the real vehicle out-ranging Panthers and shit. ISU-152 fire every 10 seconds. This argument is flawed.

before you read this: this is a thread calling germans easymode.



choose a Doctrine with tigers.

then, build t1, and start spamming MG42's. place them in buildings throughout the map! don't worry about capping!

when sufficient mg levels have been reached, tech and start spamming PG's!
use the PG's to chase down conscripts squads, cap, and make sure he can't get out of his base territory!
move your MG's up with your PG's for MAXIMUM SS PANZER DIVISION TACTICAL BASE PIN MANEUVER KNIGHTS CROSS SARGENT EXTREME CROSS HOLDER OF THE SWORDS AND THE OAK LEAVES EXTREME

SUCH HISTORICAL ACCURACY!

you should soon notice if your opponent has gone t1 or t2
if t1: start spammin scout cars, to counter snipers and flame m3's
if t2: keep spamming PG's till you have enough fuel
if guards: spam PG's, keep scout cars back

don't worry about MAXIMS! they take around 35 seconds to pin a squad of PG's in light cover
(i will provide proof of this if you don't believe me)

then: start spamming P4s!

when you have two P4's
start spamming TIGERS

continue spamming tigers, pioneers and PG's until you win!

Give me a reason, Reich fanboys why this is acceptable.
to win you literally need to spam 4 units, require minimum APM, minimum micro, it works on all maps with buildings.

this tactic is extremely hard if not impossible to beat.

L2 abuse FHQ's, T70's, 120mm mortars, cons spam, AT Nade RNG oh wait what RNG it crits eng every time. Then just spam SU85 for insta win, as well as cheap 30 muni mines.

L2 abuse FHQ's, T70's, 120mm mortars, cons spam, AT Nade RNG oh wait what RNG it crits eng every time. Then just spam SU85 for insta win, as well as cheap 30 muni mines.

You just reminded me how stale I feel the 1vs1 meta is :/

bullshit, thats a "perfect scenario"
No plan survives the first contact intact
sorry

Ok, I tried to explain how I deal with lone MG42 in building. You want what would happen if I played vs strat like that.

First of all, when you enter building with mg42. I would switch my attention to other side of the map and in-behind (trying to find your Pio squad and waiting for Molotov upgrade + ammo)

I would probably find your Pios, force retreat and cut of your fuel point. In the meantime my other con squads are more than likely to come across your second MG42 midway to the building, because I would try to cap from the front. At that point, either I would chase your down with cons, or you would somehow manage to get to building.

I would get M3 flamer quickly and a sniper. You cannot possibly protect both Mg42's, you lost map control. I would flame one of your MG42's or both, or get one with Con's.

before you can scratch your head, you gonna have t70 to deal with, combined with bunch of Cons and sniper or two.

Game over.......... (what you talk of, can work in team games or against lower skilled players. Not vs any decent 1v1 Soviet player. (occasionally sure, someone can pull it off)

before you read this: this is a thread calling germans easymode.



choose a Doctrine with tigers.

then, build t1, and start spamming MG42's. place them in buildings throughout the map! don't worry about capping!

when sufficient mg levels have been reached, tech and start spamming PG's!
use the PG's to chase down conscripts squads, cap, and make sure he can't get out of his base territory!
move your MG's up with your PG's for MAXIMUM SS PANZER DIVISION TACTICAL BASE PIN MANEUVER KNIGHTS CROSS SARGENT EXTREME CROSS HOLDER OF THE SWORDS AND THE OAK LEAVES EXTREME

SUCH HISTORICAL ACCURACY!

you should soon notice if your opponent has gone t1 or t2
if t1: start spammin scout cars, to counter snipers and flame m3's
if t2: keep spamming PG's till you have enough fuel
if guards: spam PG's, keep scout cars back

don't worry about MAXIMS! they take around 35 seconds to pin a squad of PG's in light cover
(i will provide proof of this if you don't believe me)

then: start spamming P4s!

when you have two P4's
start spamming TIGERS

continue spamming tigers, pioneers and PG's until you win!

Give me a reason, Reich fanboys why this is acceptable.
to win you literally need to spam 4 units, require minimum APM, minimum micro, it works on all maps with buildings.

this tactic is extremely hard if not impossible to beat.

bullshit, thats a "perfect scenario"
No plan survives the first contact intact
sorry

Ironic, because your entire first post is based on the premise that a "perfect scenario" exists for Ost, which you outline in caps and bold, no less.

L2 abuse FHQ's, T70's, 120mm mortars, cons spam, AT Nade RNG oh wait what RNG it crits eng every time. Then just spam SU85 for insta win, as well as cheap 30 muni mines.

FHQ+120 Mortar+T-70+SU-85=Instant win

ATnade crits engine everytime?

Have you ever played your opposite side for once?

Best way to figure out a counter is to play that way (i.e. MGs in every building, PGrens -> P4s and Tiger) and see how your opponent (in automatch or basic match) counters it.

cant stress this enough. It can really reveal flaws in a strat. Its not always the units that are the problem. It can come down to where you use the units and other micro.

The manner of this thread should not ever be the way to complain about perceived game imbalances.
If you don't know how to counter a strategy that you seem to be the only one to not be able to defeat, post the replay of said strategy, ask for possible counters and execute said strategy yourself a few times.
At least to offered doing parts of this in some of your replies.
Maybe I'm wrong and it actually turns out to be a balance problem once you demonstrate its use but currently I think you're complaining about something that shouldn't be a problem to counter.

120mm gets gangraped by PG's
Molotov does nothing to larger buildings with MG's in it, your conscripts will lose 3-4 models while throwing it, already losing you the manpower war.
guards in M3 is inneffective against upugguned scout cars, most of the time the scoutcar blows up your M3, thus resulting in a chance of your guards being squadwiped

Oh, and try avoiding the mg/buildings on a map like road to karkov, kolod, and semosiky where there are buildings literally everywhere
or a map like minsk where the map is seperated into 3-4 lanes where you can place MG's to completely stop infantry movement

ah, i dont have time for deal with noobs, just dont expect you will "just" spam pggrens after u made hmg-s with no loss. It is not a chess game dude like hmg vs cons and hmg win. There is another important thing u dont see like the micro,tactics etc.