StuG life not viable

Back to the topic. I think STUG would be more viable if it had a special shell for penetrating heavier units.

It's current ability is useless it does half damage and hardly even stuns. Stuns enemy only for 2 seconds literally. Really no point in that.

The Pak 40 which has the same ability is way more efficient and defined. Since it does full damage and stuns better.

STUG needs a different ability, Penetration shell like what Jackson and Wolverine has to combat heavier armour.

There is currently no point in using STUG really. Just against mediums which is quite useless all in all. As a tank destroyer, it needs something to enhance its capabilities against heavier armour.

Then there would be more reason to use it. Same goes for Jagdpanzer which apparently has also a hard time against heavier vehicles.

Panther seems to always do a better job penetrating tanks than either of these 2.

Main target for stug - allied mediums, not heavies. It hardcounter any medium, but if your enemy build heavy - build panther, pak or another stug. Or you want that 1 stug could deal easily with is-2? Build 3 stugs (cost will be like 1 heavy) and you have hardcounter to is-2, churchill or any other heavy. If you want OST copy of su-85...balance. You have doctrinal elefant as su have doctrinal t-3485.
I just can't understand why you want that OST T3 have ALL tools to play in any timeframe? Maybe we also will add to OST t3 werfer and brummbar to have AI against static defense? Why not?
It was already proved that STUG do it's job and do it pretty well. No need to rework units that works, we have enough broken units that need rework (cons-penals problem, maxim, su-76, wstuka and e.t.c).
JP struggle against heavies? You are joking? The best non-doc OKW tool to keep in bay any ally heavy. No one never will be dive with heavy on JP4 (only noobs will do that). You just give it free vet and will go to the repair.

And talking about Walking Stuka. That is an absolute shit unit in game because of its enormous predictability. That unit is just a wailing siren (so that every can hear it loud and clear) and the fact that it takes a long 5 seconds before it arrives on impact, makes it a complete disaster. Why Relic.

It is only useful against those who take long to repack meaning only versus support weapons. Overall, it is a real shit/worst investment compared to either Katusha and Panzerwerfer.

I really disagree with Greyshotproductions saying Walking Stuka being useful against blobs, lol. It is simply the easiest arty piece to counter.

I simply had way better chances with both Panzerwerfer and Katusha.

It does come early but does not make it all any good. Same goes for shitty Rak.

the stuka zu fuss is actually really good when firing at targets on a known retreat path... it takes a bit more skill than most rocket arties but its results are far more devastating...

GBEM can u please make a dedicated thread about indirect fire and not pollute this one with it? this is stug, any opinion ?

would an ability that give range be ok instead of target weak point, similar to usf at gun ?

would an ability that give range be ok instead of target weak point, similar to usf at gun ?

Not, because with this ability you could counter with 90 fuel T3 (1 tier below) unit top-tiers allies TD (add to it scopes in some docs and you will get backsitting cancer). Just imagine if soviets for t-3476 will ask heat rounds? 90 fuel medium that with ability can kill 120 fuel medium - balance?
Want long-range non-doc unit against ally TD - pak.

Not, because with this ability you could counter with 90 fuel T3 (1 tier below) unit top-tiers allies TD (add to it scopes in some docs and you will get backsitting cancer). Just imagine if soviets for t-3476 will ask heat rounds? 90 fuel medium that with ability can kill 120 fuel medium - balance?
Want long-range non-doc unit against ally TD - pak.

it would be timed like the usf at gun not a permanent one something like + 10/5 rnage and 20% more accuracy for 15 seconds

it would be timed like the usf at gun not a permanent one something like + 10/5 rnage and 20% more accuracy for 15 seconds

50+10=?
+20% accuracy...very fun for unit that already have 100% chance to hit on any medium while stationary. Now you could be like sherman on moving. But without turret.

I already told, no any nation in-game, don't have T3 armor long-range unit, that hardcountering mediums. Soft counter (su-76) have, non hardcounter. STUG ideal - 50 range (20% more than any medium), killer of all meduims and LV. 175 far pen - 46% chance to hit is-2, 64% for kv. And you still have +10 range against them. Kite.
STUG works, don't disturb it.

The line-up is simply a fail for Germans.

At the moment StuG should counter tank-hunters, Panther heavy tanks. That is why StuG has such bad pen, because allii-tankhunters have bad armor. The range is StuGs main-problem, not the pen.

It has no turret, that is how it gets countered by mediums (while Jackson and Firefly don't really have counters, beside Elefant or Jagdtiger). They are mobile, very accurat and outrange everything, even PaK have same range.

-> If StuG gets 55 range it has some more chances to fight long-rangers. So it also hull-down will be interesting. Because it has very bad AI hull-down will not become OP, can still be counters by PaKs.

50+10=?
+20% accuracy...very fun for unit that already have 100% chance to hit on any medium while stationary. Now you could be like sherman on moving. But without turret.

I already told, no any nation in-game, don't have T3 armor long-range unit, that hardcountering mediums. Soft counter (su-76) have, non hardcounter. STUG ideal - 50 range (20% more than any medium), killer of all meduims and LV. 175 far pen - 46% chance to hit is-2, 64% for kv. And you still have +10 range against them. Kite.
STUG works, don't disturb it.

the 20 % accuracy is there to counter light vehicle and same for the 10 or 5 timed range so it actually counters AEC ,SU 76 and Stuart, more accuracy is important vs LV and the 5 or 10 range would help it catch up to su 76 or aec which either have more range or same or help catch up the Stuart running away , it's timed after all not permanet

the stugs needs to counter those too as there is no unit like puma for osther non doc

The line-up is simply a fail for Germans.

At the moment StuG should counter tank-hunters, Panther heavy tanks. That is why StuG has such bad pen, because allii-tankhunters have bad armor. The range is StuGs main-problem, not the pen.

If use your logic (where TD is counter for another TD), than su-85 counter to stug, but who for SU counter heavies? Don't tell me about-t3476, even with 2 you will have vey bad chances against panther or tiger.
You could explain for me meaning of word "counter"? Maybe we are understand this word by different ways, i don't know. But for me, "counter" means - something that designed for one clear specific purpose and this something, doing it pretty awesome. Sniper counter another sniper or team weapons? Flames counter heavy cover? Mediums counter LV's? Mortar counter mg's? ATG counter armor units?

TD's NEVER COUNTER OTHER TD's. Only doctrinal like JT, Ele, ISU-152, but they are doctrinal - balance.

Main target for stug - allied mediums, not heavies. It hardcounter any medium, but if your enemy build heavy - build panther, pak or another stug. Or you want that 1 stug could deal easily with is-2? Build 3 stugs (cost will be like 1 heavy) and you have hardcounter to is-2, churchill or any other heavy. If you want OST copy of su-85...balance. You have doctrinal elefant as su have doctrinal t-3485.
I just can't understand why you want that OST T3 have ALL tools to play in any timeframe? Maybe we also will add to OST t3 werfer and brummbar to have AI against static defense? Why not?
It was already proved that STUG do it's job and do it pretty well. No need to rework units that works, we have enough broken units that need rework (cons-penals problem, maxim, su-76, wstuka and e.t.c).
JP struggle against heavies? You are joking? The best non-doc OKW tool to keep in bay any ally heavy. No one never will be dive with heavy on JP4 (only noobs will do that). You just give it free vet and will go to the repair.

I am not complaining but it just according to what I have experienced, I simply believe that Panther has somewhat better penetration than JP4.

Maybe I am wrong, but otherwise it is a good TD to counter most Allied Tanks. I just feel Panther fills the boots way better in contrast according to my encounters against Heavier Tanks.

I am not complaining but it just according to what I have experienced, I simply believe that Panther has somewhat better penetration than JP4.

Maybe I am wrong, but otherwise it is a good TD to counter most Allied Tanks. I just feel Panther fills the boots way better in contrast according to my encounters against Heavier Tanks.

It have. Panther have pen on level with su-85. You have 2 tools: cheap (it hardcounter units from top tier and all they cost more than stug) T3 stug to hardcounter mediums or expensive T4 Panther. Panther better, but need tech and cost more. Simple decision. If su-76 was hardcounter to p4, who will go to T4, wnen you could build only t-70 and su-76 and win game.

If use your logic (where TD is counter for another TD), than su-85 counter to stug, but who for SU counter heavies? Don't tell me about-t3476, even with 2 you will have vey bad chances against panther or tiger.
You could explain for me meaning of word "counter"? Maybe we are understand this word by different ways, i don't know. But for me, "counter" means - something that designed for one clear specific purpose and this something, doing it pretty awesome. Sniper counter another sniper or team weapons? Flames counter heavy cover? Mediums counter LV's? Mortar counter mg's? ATG counter armor units?

TD's NEVER COUNTER OTHER TD's. Only doctrinal like JT, Ele, ISU-152, but they are doctrinal - balance.

SU has high pen and range, you support it with your inf, so Panther can't hunt it. You use PaK to counter it, or a good offensive.

T34 is there to destroy the support. It is good versus inf, good versus PaKs.


There are no real counters in CoH. The game is mainly based on micro. Sure, there some situation you can say, it is a counter. Like PaK versus SU85.

SU has high pen and range, you support it with your inf, so Panther can't hunt it. You use PaK to counter it, or a good offensive.

T34 is there to destroy the support. It is good versus inf, good versus PaKs.


There are no real counters in CoH. The game is mainly based on micro. Sure, there some situation you can say, it is a counter. Like PaK versus SU85.

Day for real stories, when i know that in CoH no any counter. M5 with quad don't counter planes. P4 don't counter t-70 or t-3476. Minesweeper don't counter mine. Faust don't counter M3. MG don't counter infantry. Rocket arty don't counter blobs or team weapons. Obers don't counter cons. Stormtroops don't counter engeeners or grens with volks on close-combat. It's all matter of micro.
What else you will say for me?

SU-85 top-tier TD, you want for stug be in pair with SU-85? Move it to T4, boost stats and price to 130, change abilities. I also want that SU-76 was hardcounter to P4....but BALANCE. You have panther.
If you use 1 panther against hiding SU-85 it's your fault. No one SU-85 in the whole world never will dive to full-healthy panther (i don't consider noobs). But if you do it with your panther - Yolooo!!! I panther!!! Or f..k who planted mines here? What these guys want to do with this AT grenade? Which it's fault?
If i will dive by su-85 to panther which it will be fault?
Against t-34 use stug. You support it with your inf, so t-34 can't hunt it.

Day for real stories, when i know that in CoH no any counter. M5 with quad don't counter planes. P4 don't counter t-70 or t-3476. Minesweeper don't counter mine. Faust don't counter M3. MG don't counter infantry. Rocket arty don't counter blobs or team weapons. Obers don't counter cons. Stormtroops don't counter engeeners or grens with volks on close-combat. It's all matter of micro.
What else you will say for me?

SU-85 top-tier TD, you want for stug be in pair with SU-85? Move it to T4, boost stats and price to 130, change abilities. I also want that SU-76 was hardcounter to P4....but BALANCE. You have panther.
If you use 1 panther against hiding SU-85 it's your fault. No one SU-85 in the whole world never will dive to full-healthy panther (i don't consider noobs). But if you do it with your panther - Yolooo!!! I panther!!! Or f..k who planted mines here? What these guys want to do with this AT grenade? Which it's fault?
If i will dive by su-85 to panther which it will be fault?
Against t-34 use stug. You support it with your inf, so t-34 can't hunt it.

You make it to easy. Like I said, there are counters, because you outclass them. But there are many vehicles don't really have counters, or non-stock counters.

Even, you don't give examples.

If you can read, I also said StuG would need a price increase with extra range, my opinion would be a upgrade in T4 for 5 extra range. (Rename it to StuG F, upgrade StuG G etc.)

It would be more a counter versus Jacksons and Fireflies in massive multiplayer.



Guys, stop balancing 1vs1. The game is mainly 2vs2 +.



Edit: It is funny to read the stories of magic "counters". It only shows, that you have to less hours in that game.

what if the doctrinal scope upgrade for OH is turned into a nondoc stug only upgrade? It is more fair if you have to upgrade your stugs to fight other TDs like jacksons or SU85s

The upgrade could increase the attack range also, by a little bit, like +5 or +10. Muni cost to be tweaked.

Maybe adding it to Elephants also, but thats another discussion.

The free ability slot could be use to revamp some old OH commanders...

If use your logic (where TD is counter for another TD), than su-85 counter to stug, but who for SU counter heavies? Don't tell me about-t3476, even with 2 you will have vey bad chances against panther or tiger.
You could explain for me meaning of word "counter"? Maybe we are understand this word by different ways, i don't know. But for me, "counter" means - something that designed for one clear specific purpose and this something, doing it pretty awesome. Sniper counter another sniper or team weapons? Flames counter heavy cover? Mediums counter LV's? Mortar counter mg's? ATG counter armor units?

TD's NEVER COUNTER OTHER TD's. Only doctrinal like JT, Ele, ISU-152, but they are doctrinal - balance.

JP4 is best at TD counter due to armor, range and RoF .

The stug is fine... its not there to trade blows with allied tds unsupported... use the pak 40 with the stug if u want to engage allied TDs then buy a ostwind or brummbar for AI... u will do better against allied meds and tds than a pack of P4s will... and do better against infantry aswell

If you can read, I also said StuG would need a price increase with extra range, my opinion would be a upgrade in T4 for 5 extra range. (Rename it to StuG F, upgrade StuG G etc.)

Stug have it's place - hardcounter for medium spam. If you want add +5 range in T4 for stug, it must be personal upgrade for each stug (like in USF doc for shermans).

But again - stug not designed to counter 1vs1 ally top-tier TD. It's like make for su-76 upgrade in T-4 to counter p4. You just want bring up T3 unit to T4.

Stug is similar to the su76 in that usually you dont get it unless you are behind on fuel or vehicles. This is an issue with both vehicles.
The issue with the StuG is its cost steps on the toes of the panzer 4. The issue with the su76 is that its anti tank abilities are overkill for the time it arrives at.

For the StuG reduce its performance and price.
For su76, reduce its anti tank performance but buff its anti infantry capability-reduce cost in barrage, or maybe give it a "artillery mode" etc.

Stug is similar to the su76 in that usually you dont get it unless you are behind on fuel or vehicles. This is an issue with both vehicles.
The issue with the StuG is its cost steps on the toes of the panzer 4. The issue with the su76 is that its anti tank abilities are overkill for the time it arrives at.

For the StuG reduce its performance and price.
For su76, reduce its anti tank performance but buff its anti infantry capability-reduce cost in barrage, or maybe give it a "artillery mode" etc.

I actually don't think it's an issue that they are stop gap AT. it means that the factions have a place to spend their fuel that is immune to small arms and won't death loop. Being able to get either of them to give you a fighting chance is a great boon, not a design flaw. Due to the faction design being more than a medium counter makes them both overlap with higher tech and more expensive units.