StuG life not viable

Move STUG to OST t2 with decreased cost and stats, increase range. Call-it STUG-E with 2 types of shells (like USF sherman) HEAT and HE. Problem solved. OST got 60-range "sometimes hit to dirt instead tank" light TD with some AI. And when t-34 or cromwell will arrive we will see the same problem as with SU-76, "new" stug counter LV, but when something bigger comes, it sucks.

Nerf stug penetration to 140-160-180
Nerf StuG reload to 6-7 seconds
Keep range at 50
Keep armor and hp
Reduce fuel to 75
Keep at tier 3

It will see use.

And i even didn't mentioned that "new" T2 stug also will delay your T3 and you will be in the same positioin as SU player. If you build these STUG, you will be downside in teching, while your light TD very fast become "outdated".

Stug just received a survivability and rotation buff, ostwind just got a great dps buff, P4 still outclasses most allied mediums. Why do people think Ostheer T3 needs anymore buffs?

There are tanks in the game like the comet that are trash and have needed rebalancing for years but apparently Ost tanks need rebalancing every patch. The Stug E is probably the only mediocre vehicle they have, everything else is good or great.

FF can 2 shot with 2 shot + rockets

Considering the FF is vastly more expensive and does less DPS than the Stug I would hope so.

Muni sink tulips are the only thing going for it to trade DPS wise effectively and even then it's a skillshot that most players can't pull off.

Nerf stug penetration to 140-160-180
Nerf StuG reload to 6-7 seconds
Keep range at 50
Keep armor and hp
Reduce fuel to 75
Keep at tier 3

It will see use.

It will be OVERNERFED as f...k. 15 fuel don't cost so much. It's almost 30 seconds. You just must wait 30 seconds from 75 to 90 to get new good stug, of 1 minute to get ostwind. Ostwind hardcounter t-70. While build stug to counter t-70 (it's already running on the field and harrasing you units) - OVERKILL.

It's already was told - STUG only against heavy medium spam. If SU or USF trying to outnumber you be mediums - stug will save you. 2 stug cost less than any 2 ally mediums (only t-34 have the same cost), while could kill easily 2 of them. if you have at least 1 gren (osttrup) squad with faust. Problem that ally rare build mediums in high numbers.

Stug was much more dominante during the old meta where Ostheer early game was under-performing for the sake of balance.
Since Ostheer early game is much more easier to pull off, there isn't that fuel difference anymore that forced the player to build a Stug to counter first medium. The Pz4 hitting the field sooner is leaving the Stug as an emergency unit.
- If you lose your 1st Pz4 extremely quickly and need something to counter mediums tank.
- If you lose early game by a huge margin that you can't build a Pz4 to counter 1st opponent medium tank.
- If you go Ostwind first and suddenly need AT to counter unexpected medium (losing your pzgren shreck squad for example)

Stug is in its right spot at the moment, a unit you're more than happy to have for quite a cheap price on your stock roaster if you really need a mobile medium tank counter.
Before asking to modify the unit, just ask yourself why would you build a pure AT unit as first medium tank? If you can have a Pz4 that can do both AT and AI and hit the field around the same time as other medium tanks.

Imo stug is only good against slower tanks like Churchill and IS. And you will need at least 2 stugs and forgo P4 or delay Panther.

But the problem is both Brit and Sov will supplement with 60 range TD. Which negates Stug.

Allies med tanks are either faster or higher moving accrucary, which make fixed gun stug useless. Even a AEC can circle and kill a stug easily.

Imo i say lower Stug fuel cost by 10 and make TWP like hvap rounds, let it shoot for a few seconds, rather than just 1 uselss shot.

It will be OVERNERFED as f...k. 15 fuel don't cost so much. It's almost 30 seconds. You just must wait 30 seconds from 75 to 90 to get new good stug, of 1 minute to get ostwind. Ostwind hardcounter t-70. While build stug to counter t-70 (it's already running on the field and harrasing you units) - OVERKILL.

Well if you dont think a unit with 560 hp, 50 range, 140 penetration at max range, twp and a machine gun is worth 75 fuel, I dunno what to tell you. Maybe it could be 70 fuel. Also StuG isnt just to kill t70.

Stug was much more dominante during the old meta where Ostheer early game was under-performing for the sake of balance.
Since Ostheer early game is much more easier to pull off, there isn't that fuel difference anymore that forced the player to build a Stug to counter first medium. The Pz4 hitting the field sooner is leaving the Stug as an emergency unit.
- If you lose your 1st Pz4 extremely quickly and need something to counter mediums tank.
- If you lose early game by a huge margin that you can't build a Pz4 to counter 1st opponent medium tank.
- If you go Ostwind first and suddenly need AT to counter unexpected medium (losing your pzgren shreck squad for example)

Stug is in its right spot at the moment, a unit you're more than happy to have for quite a cheap price on your stock roaster if you really need a mobile medium tank counter.
Before asking to modify the unit, just ask yourself why would you build a pure AT unit as first medium tank? If you can have a Pz4 that can do both AT and AI and hit the field around the same time as other medium tanks.

90 fuel is quite a bit for a dedicated anti tank unit with only 50 range. That said, its damage output is too high to be less than 90 fuel so by nerfing that you open up the possibility to make it a more affordable emergency unit like the m10.

then how about instead of TW we give it a timed increase in range like the USF at-gun and some accuracy ?
something like, sight forward:the veteran crew is able to shoot with more accuracy and with better range for a limited time , + 10 range + 30% accuracy for 15-20 seconds

Well if you dont think a unit with 560 hp, 50 range, 140 penetration at max range, twp and a machine gun is worth 75 fuel, I dunno what to tell you. Maybe it could be 70 fuel. Also StuG isnt just to kill t70.

It was already said, for which puprose you will be build stug sa 1-st unit? That's why i point on t-70.
You build T3, t-70 already running over battlefield - which unit you will build 1-st? Stug? Ostwind? Or save fuel to P4? IF you choose P4 - you have hardcounter to any LV and could also fight against any future medium and have very potent AI platform. Choose Ostwind - also good, very strong AI + counter LV, only need don't die against 1-st medium, but when 1-st ally medium will arrive, you almost have fuel on P4 or stug.
Only one real option to build stug - ostwind+stug. Not other. Or heavy ally medium spam. It's just question why soviet M5 so rare? Because it will build when you know, that your enemy choose doc with AT Stuka. It's not rare, it's just build only when you neeed it. Not sooner, not later.

If you think, that "new" cheap stug will be good, ok. I don't mind about it (i just point that, stats IMO too decreased). But you just brokening unit that already working, IMHO.

90 fuel is quite a bit for a dedicated anti tank unit with only 50 range. That said, its damage output is too high to be less than 90 fuel so by nerfing that you open up the possibility to make it a more affordable emergency unit like the m10.

You saw digits, stug could fight 1vs1 against any ally medium and always survive. Only 1 gren with faust to prevent flanking. I just can't understand why so many OST players thinking, that cheap stug will bring it "honor like in old days". Problem as was said in "meta". Allies don't build mediums in huge amounts.

90 fuel is quite a bit for a dedicated anti tank unit with only 50 range. That said, its damage output is too high to be less than 90 fuel so by nerfing that you open up the possibility to make it a more affordable emergency unit like the m10.

For what purpose?

u forgot AA half truck and clown car

yea penal got removed last patch right ?

read the term vehicle AI...

And the clown car is for earlygame bullying and further proves my argument of soviet vehicle AI being squishy meanwhile the AAHT is for antiblob purposes... it doesnt deal as much damage as a flametruck or a pwerfer... and its still squishy

The StuG is a counter to allied TDs as an m10 is a counter to the JP4- it isnt. The StuG is a counter to allied medium tank spam, but due to the lack of flexibility of the unit, it is just more cost effective to save for a panzer 4 usually.
The StuG fits a similar cost niche as the panzer 4 but doesnt offer as much synergy with different compositions. Hence my suggestion to nerf the penetration and rate of fire of the StuG in exchange for a reduced fuel cost as well.

It does though... it may have 10 less range but it has all the stats required to beat allied tds in a 1v1 if they decide to duke it out for a measely 90 fuel...

And comparisons to the M10 dont work since it doesnt have the same DPS as the stug and the JP4 is armored enough to resist the M10

StuG just needs a bit more frontal armor and its fine. It should be able to reliably bounce some shots with vet2. It even tells you in the description/ bulletins that it has good frontal armor. Yet in its current state I hardly see it bounce any shots even with vet2.

I thought rocket damage didn't stack now or something because of cheese.


Because people don't enjoy getting seal clubbed by panthers lol.

They're actually pretty decent against TDs if you have a pair (which is only like 40 fuel more than a TD) just because they reload so fast and they've got longer range than mediums.

I remember back when the Stug was OP with that super vet 0 reload double stug was the best thing against TDs. Damn stugs would kill TDs real damn quick.

Give it 55 range, so it can deal with late-game tank-destroyers.

Give it 55 range, so it can deal with late-game tank-destroyers.

Do we want them though? They are only 90 fuel. To counter TDs, Ostheer has plenty of options, mainly Pak 40s, Panzerschrecks, Panthers and the Elefant. The StuG is meant to counter medium tanks and it does that very well (especially since the latest buffs). It will have more of a role once heavy call-ins get tied to tech and mediums will (probably) be used a lot more again.

Even in team games I find the StuG very useful just to serve as intermediate AT after rushing an Ostwind. Just don't expect it to go toe to toe with the much more expensive Allied TDs and make sure to transition into the appropriate units if the enemy builds them.

read the term vehicle AI...

And the clown car is for earlygame bullying and further proves my argument of soviet vehicle AI being squishy meanwhile the AAHT is for antiblob purposes... it doesnt deal as much damage as a flametruck or a pwerfer... and its still squishy

dude did u smoke ? aa truck is more durable than flame truck... and what does the pwefer compare to aa truck.... it compares to the kat as u already listed....

saying the aa truck is not anti inf is like saying mg are not anti inf, and pwefer is not anti inf as it suppresses so it's anti blob

dude did u smoke ? aa truck is more durable than flame truck...

emphasis on the it doesnt deal as much damage as a flametruck... learn to read

and the soviet AAHT is very squshy... like the SDKFZ 251 it dies to 2 hits from AT guns...

and what does the pwefer compare to aa truck.... it compares to the kat as u already listed

ahh yes the katy... a unit that fires 4 rounds per volley and does 4 volleys with no suppression vs a unit that fires 10 at a time and suppresses everything in the area... sure it takes 0.5 seconds more for the rockets to land but the fact that it lands its rounds in much quicker succession means that it tends to deal alot more damage...

all u have to do is overwhelm the micro of your opponent by attacking at a wide front then fire the pwerfer at whatever target you please... 9/10 times its going to deal a wipe... the katy on the other hand is more of an area denial tool and a weapon team destroyer... even then most weapon teams can usually pack up and run by the second volley of the katy... a weapon team on the other hand can never and will never escape the panzerwerfer...


now im not saying the katy is bad... but the plentiful "panzerwerfer sux" or is "meh" arguments ive seen really doesnt apply for anything bigger than a 1v1... and even in 1v1s its sorta even with the katyusha... in 4v4s and big arse teamgames it can be quite punishing especially noting the infantry saturation and the presence of the OKW IRHT...

saying the aa truck is not anti inf is like saying mg are not anti inf, and pwefer is not anti inf as it suppresses so it's anti blob

its really more of a mobile machinegun... crutch for the maxim if you will... and machineguns arent there to deal damage but to apply suppression... the panzerwerfer on the other hand can do wipes regularly... but consider the AAHT as an antivehicle infantry if you will... it changes nothing... the soviets still have a chronic lack of any durable or long ranged vehicle based AI... something all other factions have in abundance

OKW = P4, stuka, KT (very cost inefficient but has its uses in teamgames)
OST = brummbar, Ostwind, P4, pwerfer
USF = Sherman, scott
UKF = churchill, centaur
sov = katy... ???

and note this is on the faction with the worst core infantry and machineguns ingame...

emphasis on the it doesnt deal as much damage as a flametruck... learn to read

and the soviet AAHT is very squshy... like the SDKFZ 251 it dies to 2 hits from AT guns...



ahh yes the katy... a unit that fires 4 rounds per volley and does 4 volleys with no suppression vs a unit that fires 10 at a time and suppresses everything in the area... sure it takes 0.5 seconds more for the rockets to land but the fact that it lands its rounds in much quicker succession means that it tends to deal alot more damage...

all u have to do is overwhelm the micro of your opponent by attacking at a wide front then fire the pwerfer at whatever target you please... 9/10 times its going to deal a wipe... the katy on the other hand is more of an area denial tool and a weapon team destroyer... even then most weapon teams can usually pack up and run by the second volley of the katy... a weapon team on the other hand can never and will never escape the panzerwerfer...


now im not saying the katy is bad... but the plentiful "panzerwerfer sux" or is "meh" arguments ive seen really doesnt apply for anything bigger than a 1v1... and even in 1v1s its sorta even with the katyusha... in 4v4s and big arse teamgames it can be quite punishing especially noting the infantry saturation and the presence of the OKW IRHT...



its really more of a mobile machinegun... crutch for the maxim if you will... and machineguns arent there to deal damage but to apply suppression... the panzerwerfer on the other hand can do wipes regularly... but consider the AAHT as an antivehicle infantry if you will... it changes nothing... the soviets still have a chronic lack of any durable or long ranged vehicle based AI... something all other factions have in abundance

OKW = P4, stuka, KT (very cost inefficient but has its uses in teamgames)
OST = brummbar, Ostwind, P4, pwerfer
USF = Sherman, scott
UKF = churchill, centaur
sov = katy... ???

and note this is on the faction with the worst core infantry and machineguns ingame...

1 it has more armor 2 it deals ton of damage, so no it's anti inf just cause it supresses them it does not make it not anti inf

a the pw wefer the unit that only has 160 range and has lower aoe and is an hit or miss , while the katy can fire from 200 range and can saturate and area leaving no chance to get away with 1 or 2 models , either u instant retreat or they are dead

pwefer is not bad but why rant about it ? i didn't say anything about it

Saying kt is long range anti inf and the p4 and not listing the t 34 76 is pure bias, why do count basic medium as anti inf but not the t 34 76 ?