StuG life not viable

i dont get why people think the stug isnt viable... it is a cost efficient counter to allied heavy TDs and mediums in a way the panzer 4 cannot hope to match... sure it lacks the AI of the P4 but ostheer now has
1. the newly buffed ostwind
2. the good ole brummbar
3. the panzerwerfer

as dedicated AI options

as it should, i mean su 76 cost almost half of the p 4 ,comes earlier and can kite from 60 range, stug has 10 less range cost more both tech and unit, I would expect to counter medium tank that cost equal or slightly more when they rush it form the front as it's its only role (at least the su 76 has barrage)

the su 76 can be safe from harm with it's 60 range (even from the stug) while the stug with 50 range will have to be in a worst position and even be out range form su 76 and other TD

Main role of TD - fight against enemy mediums and LV, not other TD. You never counter Elefant or JT by SU-85, you use many t-34's for it and off-map. You never counter SU-152 by stug, you use panther for it or several p4 with offmap.
But if you insist that STUG must will get buff "because he fight against early accesable su-76 with 60 range". Than SU-76 must will get buff, because it will be fight against STUG. And please, told me when SU got SU-76? IRC, right after T-70 (no one never will build SU-76 as start unit, if opponent equal). If we will be look to situations where SU build SU-76 as start unit, then we must consider situation when OST rush to T3, not build T1 and T2, when in that case STUG will arrive?

as it should, i mean su 76 cost almost half of the p 4 ,comes earlier and can kite from 60 range, stug has 10 less range cost more both tech and unit, I would expect to counter medium tank that cost equal or slightly more when they rush it form the front as it's its only role (at least the su 76 has barrage)

the su 76 can be safe from harm with it's 60 range (even from the stug) while the stug with 50 range will have to be in a worst position and even be out range form su 76 and other TD

my beef with the SU-76 is the high cost of the barrage ability... outside of doctrines the soviets dont really have much vehicle based AI outside of

1. the T-34
2. the T-70
3. the katy

and all of those units mentioned are all squishy and with the exception of the katyusha put you in range of enemy AT... (note T-34s have less health than the average medium)

in contrast ostheer gets
1. the panzer 4
2. the ostwind
3. the brummbar
4. the panzerwerfer
5. the flametruck

out of all these units only the flametruck and panzerwerfer are squishy... and the pwerfer and brummbar can attack outside of AT range...

and the piece de resistance?

your infantry are significantly outclassed for much of the match outside doctrines (conscripts)

soo yeah id make the barrage cheaper or rework the SU-76 to have a switched static arty mode...

Main problem of STUG - enemy ATG. Because when you have 50 range you always should consider that behind this "blob of fog of war" hiding enemy ATG. And if you dived too deep or got snare, you always be dead. While su-76 have +10 range, it have significantly less hp that make survival less even less possible that for stug.
You only must remember - don't dive with stug, just look to DPS2 and chance to hit while on moving. Stug for static defense. As su-76.

Main role of TD - fight against enemy mediums and LV, not other TD. You never counter Elefant or JT by SU-85, you use many t-34's for it and off-map. You never counter SU-152 by stug, you use panther for it or several p4 with offmap.
But if you insist that STUG must will get buff "because he fight against early accesable su-76 with 60 range". Than SU-76 must will get buff, because it will be fight against STUG. And please, told me when SU got SU-76? IRC, right after T-70 (no one never will build SU-76 as start unit, if opponent equal). If we will be look to situations where SU build SU-76 as start unit, then we must consider situation when OST rush to T3, not build T1 and T2, when in that case STUG will arrive?

im asking for a rework not a straight buff add 5 range increase price , reduce rate of fire, etc

my beef with the SU-76 is the high cost of the barrage ability... outside of doctrines the soviets dont really have much vehicle based AI outside of

1. the T-34
2. the T-70
3. the katy

and all of those units mentioned are all squishy and with the exception of the katyusha put you in range of enemy AT... (note T-34s have less health than the average medium)

in contrast ostheer gets
1. the panzer 4
2. the ostwind
3. the brummbar
4. the panzerwerfer
5. the flametruck

out of all these units only the flametruck and panzerwerfer are squishy... and the pwerfer and brummbar can attack outside of AT range...

and the piece de resistance?

your infantry are significantly outclassed for much of the match outside doctrines (conscripts)

soo yeah id make the barrage cheaper or rework the SU-76 to have a switched static arty mode...

u forgot AA half truck and clown car

yea penal got removed last patch right ?

i dont get why people think the stug isnt viable... it is a cost efficient counter to allied heavy TDs and mediums in a way the panzer 4 cannot hope to match... sure it lacks the AI of the P4 but ostheer now has
1. the newly buffed ostwind
2. the good ole brummbar
3. the panzerwerfer

as dedicated AI options

The StuG is a counter to allied TDs as an m10 is a counter to the JP4- it isnt. The StuG is a counter to allied medium tank spam, but due to the lack of flexibility of the unit, it is just more cost effective to save for a panzer 4 usually.
The StuG fits a similar cost niche as the panzer 4 but doesnt offer as much synergy with different compositions. Hence my suggestion to nerf the penetration and rate of fire of the StuG in exchange for a reduced fuel cost as well.

im asking for a rework not a straight buff add 5 range increase price , reduce rate of fire, etc

I also want rework of SU-76 because in current position you must build 2 su-76 (150 fuel! more than t-3485 or kv-1) to have hardcounter to 1 P4, while OST could build 1 stug and hardcounter your medium. You saw digits. And i also didn't mention that every new armor after T-70 will delay your own t4 (or heavy) and you will be in very hard position, when axis armor will start push if you build 1 su-76 after t-70.

I also want rework of SU-76 because in current position you must build 2 su-76 (150 fuel! more than t-3485 or kv-1) to have hardcounter to 1 P4, while OST could build 1 stug and hardcounter your medium. You saw digits. And i also didn't mention that every new armor after T-70 will delay your own t4 (or heavy) and you will be in very hard position, when axis armor will start push if you build 1 su-76 after t-70.

Doesnt the firefly cost 155 fuel?

A jackson is only 10 fuel less than 2 su76 as well and lacks any Anti infantry.


The su76 doesnt hardcounter the panzer 4 any more than a puma hard counters a t34. What they both do is zone out the enemy mediums and provide supporting damage output although they do it differently. This is what the StuG should do as well imo.

nvm, misread

Doesnt the firefly cost 155 fuel?

A jackson is only 10 fuel less than 2 su76 as well and lacks any Anti infantry.


The su76 doesnt hardcounter the panzer 4 any more than a puma hard counters a t34. What they both do is zone out the enemy mediums and provide supporting damage output although they do it differently. This is what the StuG should do as well imo.

Realization of puma much easier that SU-76, you have excel mobility, smoke, turret and TWP. You even could use it in lategame to suicide attack gainst enemy rocket arty.
And puma comes much sooner that su-76. Current OKW meta p2+puma against t-70 with volk blob. While i never saw SU meta t-70+Su-76 against p4.
I agree that all ligth TD must work as zoning unit, but how make them works properly i don't know. IMHO it will be better to remove or move SU-76 to t4 than what we have now. It absolutely don't have a place in game, like old ostwind and old-pgrens.

I also want rework of SU-76 because in current position you must build 2 su-76 (150 fuel! more than t-3485 or kv-1) to have hardcounter to 1 P4, while OST could build 1 stug and hardcounter your medium. You saw digits. And i also didn't mention that every new armor after T-70 will delay your own t4 (or heavy) and you will be in very hard position, when axis armor will start push if you build 1 su-76 after t-70.

and u need 2 stug (180 fu more than a okw p4 !!1!11) to beat a single Churchill what's ur point ?

but they literally just reworked the su 76

The SU-76 is receiving a number of slight changes to improve its role against light and medium vehicles with only a slight reduction against heavy tanks.

Accuracy from 0.05/0.035/0.025 to 0.05/0.04/0.0375
Penetration from 200/190/180 to 180/170/160
Rotation rate from 30 to 32

And again u are asking for a single lower tier tech unit to easily beat a more expensive unit, both tech and fuel, can u send a puma or AEC 1 vs 1 tanks ? last time i checked u couldn't

btw are u arguing that having it come earlier is actually a disadvantage so it should be more powerful ? i mean if so 222 would need to be super op as each one will delay ur tech

but they literally just reworked the su 76

The SU-76 is receiving a number of slight changes to improve its role against light and medium vehicles with only a slight reduction against heavy tanks.

Accuracy from 0.05/0.035/0.025 to 0.05/0.04/0.0375
Penetration from 200/190/180 to 180/170/160
Rotation rate from 30 to 32

And again u are asking for a single lower tier tech unit to easily beat a more expensive unit, both tech and fuel, can u send a puma or AEC 1 vs 1 tanks ? last time i checked u couldn't

btw are u arguing that having it come earlier is actually a disadvantage so it should be more powerful ? i mean if so 222 would need to be super op as each one will delay ur tech

Okay, i got your point.
How often after this patch you saw SU-76 in games?
How much after this patch you saw ostwind and pgrens in games?

X-Y=???

How much?

And i repeat again - if SU-76 have wrong place, it must be moved to T4. Because right now it's just like old-ostwind or old-pgrens. Too much cost for nothing (just told me, why you never build old-ostwind, i think answer will be the same as for su-76), while you have zis with the same abilities and much better scaling.

Realization of puma much easier that SU-76, you have excel mobility, smoke, turret and TWP. You even could use it in lategame to suicide attack gainst enemy rocket arty.
And puma comes much sooner that su-76. Current OKW meta p2+puma against t-70 with volk blob. While i never saw SU meta t-70+Su-76 against p4.
I agree that all ligth TD must work as zoning unit, but how make them works properly i don't know. IMHO it will be better to remove or move SU-76 to t4 than what we have now. It absolutely don't have a place in game, like old ostwind and old-pgrens.

the pima lacks armor and 60 rangae tho, what's ur point ?

yea like what ? osth ther puma comes out same time as a stug so no, for okw puma u need to count the - 15 starting fuel
btw now coming earlier is important ? cause u seem to ignore it with stug

Okay, i got your point.
How often after this patch you saw SU-76 in games?
How much after this patch you saw ostwind and pgrens in games?

X-Y=???

How much?

And i repeat again - if SU-76 have wrong place, it must be moved to T4. Because right now it's just like old-ostwind or old-pgrens. Too much cost for nothing (just told me, why you never build old-ostwind, i think answer will be the same as for su-76), while you have zis with the same abilities and much better scaling.

why pick stug when u have pak 40 ? worse range more cost and worse scaling..... or maybe cause it's a vehicle and not an at gun ? u know like su 76 and zis

su 76 is perfectly fine, counter lv and lt and medium for a low price, if ur problem is scaling slap a 20 + more damage at vet 3 so it has 160 damage

su 76 got reworked cause it was spammed, free barrage was cheesy and su-76 spam was cost effective vs panther and other heavy tanks

the pima lacks armor and 60 rangae tho, what's ur point ?

yea like what ? osth ther puma comes out same time as a stug so no, for okw puma u need to count the - 15 starting fuel
btw now coming earlier is important ? cause u seem to ignore it with stug

IRC OST don't have non-doc puma, but maybe i'm wrong. I could remind for you current OKW vs SU gampelay: p2 + puma. P2 comes on 1 minute or 30 seconds earlier than t-70, you didn't build medtruck, instead you use medkits. After T-70 arrived, you build puma. Now you have puma+p2 against 1 t-70. You have 2, maybe 3 minutes to kill t-70 until first SU-76 will arrive (that i highly doubt will even become, how often i saw games in Dane channel or streams, it always was zis or ptrs). If t-70 was killed, you have total control over battlefield and can bleed your enemy by p2. T-70 need much more time to kill p2 than puma to kill t-70.
I remind to you again: no one SU player don't build SU-76 as start unit. If you build SU-76 right after t-70, timeframe of SU-76 and STUG will be almost equal. T-70 comes at 9-10 minute. P4 comes at 12-13 minute. If you choose STUG instead p4 you could get 1-1,5 minute discount (but i also almost never saw SOT who build 1-st unit STUG - it's always p4 or ostwind). While next SU-76 after t-70 will be with P4 time or right after it.

And i repeat my answer again (i hope you could read to these place and don't be ignoring my questions)
How often after this patch you saw SU-76 in games?
How often after this patch you saw ostwind and pgrens in games?

X-Y=???

How much?

why pick stug when u have pak 40 ? worse range more cost and worse scaling..... or maybe cause it's a vehicle and not an at gun ? u know like su 76 and zis

su 76 is perfectly fine, counter lv and lt and medium for a low price, if ur problem is scaling slap a 20 + more damage at vet 3 so it has 160 damage

su 76 got reworked cause it was spammed, free barrage was cheesy and su-76 spam was cost effective vs panther and other heavy tanks

Now you are remembered old times when spam of su-76 AND stugs was normal, because they both were cheap (su-76 cost 60 fuel IRC), have insane ROF and TWP ALWAYS penetrated heavy. I used this strat a lot, 3 stugs (su-76) to heavy, works pretty well especially in 2 vs 2. No need T4.

u see su 76 as many times as the stug if not more

btw check ur math okw need to wait around 80 fuel to get to mech tier so almost the same as tier 3 for su (okw get's a - 15 fuel start)

t 70 > luch
both AI and AT

by the time he gets puma u should be able to field out the su 76 to out range puma so no 2 3 minutes

and why would su 76 take much longer to kill luch ? it has a bit slower reload but has longer range, actual armor so it does not get damaged by the luch (su 76 can actually beat a puma with a bit of luck), and better accuracy (just buffed)

How much?

There are usually two situations where the su76 sees use. Either if the soviet player is really far behind on fuel and the enemy gets a tank, or if the soviet player is saving for a callin like the IS2 or ISU152.

That isnt to say it doesnt get used but the problem really isnt the su76 performance. Stat wise for cost the su76 is honestly superior for zoning out mediums over a puma due to the longer range. Most of the time the su76 is overkill for when it's available. A T70 handles a 222, a flamehalftrack, or a luchs just fine- you dont need the su76 for it and the puma lacks good anti infantry-if you dont kill it, the puma wont punish you. By the time vehicles that the su76 is designed for are available, the soviet player should have enough fuel for tier 4 and potentially a medium tank of his own.

Believe me, ost players would love a 60 range light TD with similar stats to su76.

There are usually two situations where the su76 sees use. Either if the soviet player is really far behind on fuel and the enemy gets a tank, or if the soviet player is saving for a callin like the IS2 or ISU152.

IRC current SU meta for heavy - T-70 + 2 ZIS. No any SU-76. And even if you far behind, much better lay your last hope on zis neither SU-76. But you right, when SU-player far behind fuel, you can SOMETIME saw su-76. But it never will be strong choice.

That isnt to say it doesnt get used but the problem really isnt the su76 performance. Stat wise for cost the su76 is honestly superior for zoning out mediums over a puma due to the longer range. Most of the time the su76 is overkill for when it's available. A T70 handles a 222, a flamehalftrack, or a luchs just fine- you dont need the su76 for it and the puma lacks good anti infantry-if you dont kill it, the puma wont punish you. By the time vehicles that the su76 is designed for are available, the soviet player should have enough fuel for tier 4 and potentially a medium tank of his own.
Believe me, ost players would love a 60 range light TD with similar stats to su76.

Move STUG to OST t2 with decreased cost and stats, increase range. Call-it STUG-E with 2 types of shells (like USF sherman) HEAT and HE. Problem solved. OST got 60-range "sometimes hit to dirt instead tank" light TD with some AI. And when t-34 or cromwell will arrive we will see the same problem as with SU-76, "new" stug counter LV, but when something bigger comes, it sucks.