Anybody playing Luftwaffe Ground Forces?

A modification to how Fallschirmjager work fundamentally could be a good way to revitalize the doctrine.

They currently are pseudo elite infantry that overlaps heavily with Obersoldaten and thus are rarely better than the non-doctrinal Obersoldaten.

I suggest reworking Falls to be more like super-Volks. They would do everything Volks do, but better and at a slightly higher cost and have different veterancy bonuses that include their camouflage.

New Fallschirmjager: 5 man squad for around 300 manpower with 5 Grenadier K98s and an upgrade to gain 2 FG-42s for 60 or so munitions. Abilities are panzerfaust and a regular grenade plus the frangible smoke grenade but now the frangible grenade is unlocked at Vet 1 with passive cloak unlocking at Vet 3. They would also be available to drop in at CP 2.

The concept here is that while intended to be elite assault troops, Fallschirmjager actually ended up being used mostly as regular infantry units and some even being formed into armored units as crazy as a FallschirmPanzer unit might sound. This implementation gives the OKW player a really strong reason to go for Luftwaffe Groud Forces Doctrine, better core infantry. Once unlocked at CP 2, there would no longer be any reason to get Volksgrenadiers, except for the lower manpower cost to field them or the lower reinforce cost. Falls now can become your core infantry, supplemented by Volks you may already have, but give you better fighting strength at the cost of a little extra manpower. The true cost of of the doctrine is that it isn’t special operations and so it has no command Panther or any other call in units. Essentially going for Falls now has no major downside early on, but becomes more expensive to upkeep and reinforce late game and with no special late game unit in the doctrine.

How about the Luftwaffe Ground Forces - use the Fallsimjagers skin, but these are six people of the Osttruppen armed with Kar98K. Upgrade - "give trophy" soldiers receive four M1 Garand and two Thompson. They can build AT traps, bunkers, etc.

Show Spoiler

Imo, Falls are an ambush unit with great dps, great vs snipers and lone squads and can slow down a vehicle but what I am reading from this thread is that its being treated as a main line infantry.

Imo, Falls are an ambush unit with great dps, great vs snipers and lone squads and can slow down a vehicle but what I am reading from this thread is that its being treated as a main line infantry.

That's pretty much the case you'll find with most "underpowered axis infantry".
If it can't be a-move blobbed like LMG grens, its underpowered.

/thread

Falls are shit, that's the problem.

They are not "shit"

use camo and fight correctly

they have four free 0.9 BAR and can use bundle grenade

anything more need? or u want g43 sniper rilfe? 5 man? free sprint and booby trap?

They are not "shit"

use camo and fight correctly

they have four free 0.9 BAR and can use bundle grenade

anything more need? or u want g43 sniper rilfe? 5 man? free sprint and booby trap?

A buff in RA would be helpfull.

A modification to how Fallschirmjager work fundamentally could be a good way to revitalize the doctrine.

They currently are pseudo elite infantry that overlaps heavily with Obersoldaten and thus are rarely better than the non-doctrinal Obersoldaten.

I suggest reworking Falls to be more like super-Volks. They would do everything Volks do, but better and at a slightly higher cost and have different veterancy bonuses that include their camouflage.

New Fallschirmjager: 5 man squad for around 300 manpower with 5 Grenadier K98s and an upgrade to gain 2 FG-42s for 60 or so munitions. Abilities are panzerfaust and a regular grenade plus the frangible smoke grenade but now the frangible grenade is unlocked at Vet 1 with passive cloak unlocking at Vet 3. They would also be available to drop in at CP 2.

The concept here is that while intended to be elite assault troops, Fallschirmjager actually ended up being used mostly as regular infantry units and some even being formed into armored units as crazy as a FallschirmPanzer unit might sound. This implementation gives the OKW player a really strong reason to go for Luftwaffe Groud Forces Doctrine, better core infantry. Once unlocked at CP 2, there would no longer be any reason to get Volksgrenadiers, except for the lower manpower cost to field them or the lower reinforce cost. Falls now can become your core infantry, supplemented by Volks you may already have, but give you better fighting strength at the cost of a little extra manpower. The true cost of of the doctrine is that it isn’t special operations and so it has no command Panther or any other call in units. Essentially going for Falls now has no major downside early on, but becomes more expensive to upkeep and reinforce late game and with no special late game unit in the doctrine.

Yeah lets make a "super-volk" squad for 20 more mp than rifles. what the hell is wrong with you?

A modification to how Fallschirmjager work fundamentally could be a good way to revitalize the doctrine.

They currently are pseudo elite infantry that overlaps heavily with Obersoldaten and thus are rarely better than the non-doctrinal Obersoldaten.

I suggest reworking Falls to be more like super-Volks. They would do everything Volks do, but better and at a slightly higher cost and have different veterancy bonuses that include their camouflage.

New Fallschirmjager: 5 man squad for around 300 manpower with 5 Grenadier K98s and an upgrade to gain 2 FG-42s for 60 or so munitions. Abilities are panzerfaust and a regular grenade plus the frangible smoke grenade but now the frangible grenade is unlocked at Vet 1 with passive cloak unlocking at Vet 3. They would also be available to drop in at CP 2.

The concept here is that while intended to be elite assault troops, Fallschirmjager actually ended up being used mostly as regular infantry units and some even being formed into armored units as crazy as a FallschirmPanzer unit might sound. This implementation gives the OKW player a really strong reason to go for Luftwaffe Groud Forces Doctrine, better core infantry. Once unlocked at CP 2, there would no longer be any reason to get Volksgrenadiers, except for the lower manpower cost to field them or the lower reinforce cost. Falls now can become your core infantry, supplemented by Volks you may already have, but give you better fighting strength at the cost of a little extra manpower. The true cost of of the doctrine is that it isn’t special operations and so it has no command Panther or any other call in units. Essentially going for Falls now has no major downside early on, but becomes more expensive to upkeep and reinforce late game and with no special late game unit in the doctrine.

Pfusies already exist, and when they were 2cp people complained that they were unusable and too awkward to fit into a build. I think falls should just be a bit tougher, like stormtrooper RA and they'd be fine. They've got great DPS at all ranges, 2 excellent grenades, camo, and a faust, and they come at 3cp like other elites.

Pfusies already exist, and when they were 2cp people complained that they were unusable and too awkward to fit into a build. I think falls should just be a bit tougher, like stormtrooper RA and they'd be fine. They've got great DPS at all ranges, 2 excellent grenades, camo, and a faust, and they come at 3cp like other elites.

The problem with Falls being so similar to Obers currently, that being a high DPS elite unit with four men is that in the doctrine you don’t get a call in tank, which means that you must go to tier 3 as OKW if you pick Luftwaffe. Now that you’ve been forced to go to tier 3, you are now able to pick Obers from that, which are pretty much alway better at supporting an already filled out infantry composition. This doesn’t leave much room for Falls as they are now.

Making them kinda like PanzerFussiliers as an “alternate mainline” would give them a new spot to fill.

Pfusies are sort of an alternative mainline that has better anti light vehicle power at the cost of anti infantry firepower and really synergies well with a mixed build of some volks and some PanzerFussiliers. The idea of making Falls more like this would make them more akin to USF paratroopers who are sort of “super Riflemen”. So that’s what I meant by “super volks”.

With my proposed adjustment you’d get a few volks squads and then one or two squads of Falls to fill out your infantry roster of 4-5 OKW mainline squads, which are normally just all Volks. Then you tech as you would normally and get Obers if you need them, which no longer overlap so much with the beefier and more versatile Falls. By having better mainline troops it also frees you from probably even needing Obers which in turn lets you invest into a Panther as your first unit out of tier 3 instead of Obers or a panzer 4.

A buff in RA would be helpfull.

Sure it would be helpful.

Its not needed tho.

They are cover ambush fighters, if you are fighting out of cover with them, you failed.

If you need something to blob and a-move, you have obers and pfussies and jli.

How about the Luftwaffe Ground Forces - use the Fallsimjagers skin, but these are six people of the Osttruppen armed with Kar98K. Upgrade - "give trophy" soldiers receive four M1 Garand and two Thompson. They can build AT traps, bunkers, etc.

Show Spoiler

Interesting idea. Luftwaffe ground troops generally were formed from other types of units that were no longer needed (such as the maintainers for aircraft in a squadron that had lost all of its aircraft), but they would’ve been equipped with their regular uniforms as already issued and wouldn’t have had the special helmet issued to fallschirmjagers. Even actual fallschirmjagers would’ve been equipped with regular German helmets and equipment later in the war when there was no longer a need or ability to produce special equipment for paratroopers that no longer did parachute operations.

Germans also almost never used captured allied rifles, with some notable exceptions. M1 Carbines were very popular and ammunition was usually easy to get if you had a captured carbine because Carbines were generally issued to the types of non combat men who were more likely to run away or surrender and give up ammo. M1 garands were not used often because of ammo problems and the clip loading system used. If you can’t get more clips, the rifle is useless. Not a problem for Americans who are supplying your units, but a bigger problem for a German who didn’t have access to this supply system. Thompsons suffer for a lack of ammo and weight and were generally not liked by Germans (and many Americans too) in favor of the MP40. STEN gun’s were looked down on as inferior, but they could exchange magazines with an MP40 as the STEN’s magazine was a copy of the MP40’s, so not only do you use the same 9mm ammunition but you can use the same magazine too.

My suggestion for a new Luftwaffe Ground Troops unit would be to use the skin from the Wehrmacht weapon crews, like the PaK40 crews, and give them all K98ks with an upgrade to have an LMG34, but with lower stats and no firing on the move. Basically OKW Ostruppen but with slightly better performance and the ability to build the flak emplacements, sandbags and repair vehicles. (Yes, this is very similar to the Panzer Elite CoH 1 version of them.)

Sure it would be helpful.

Its not needed tho.

They are cover ambush fighters, if you are fighting out of cover with them, you failed.

If you need something to blob and a-move, you have obers and pfussies and jli.

So i can get the same results from a unit I don't need to micro well, and is less likely to die in 1 shot from a tank, which one should i use hmmm...

Generally speaking Falls can be worth the effort but I find that even with good monitoring, 1 bad grenade from units bunched in cover or 1 unlucky tank shell and your 10 minutes of excellent micro are erased. It's very demoralizing. At least obers can do more from Max range and still do fine DPS with or 2 model drops. Plus with the current wide spacing while out of cover explosives are less devastating to obers.

So i can get the same results from a unit I don't need to micro well, and is less likely to die in 1 shot from a tank, which one should i use hmmm...

No, you can't, because you can't spawn other units behind enemy lines or wait in cover for perfect distance that gives you biggest advantage/throw sneaky nade.
Also, they are equally durable against tanks as any other 4 man squad in game.

Generally speaking Falls can be worth the effort but I find that even with good monitoring, 1 bad grenade from units bunched in cover or 1 unlucky tank shell and your 10 minutes of excellent micro are erased. It's very demoralizing. At least obers can do more from Max range and still do fine DPS with or 2 model drops. Plus with the current wide spacing while out of cover explosives are less devastating to obers.

Yes, specialist ambush squads require attention and micro for best result and will you better result then "regulars", that is, if you have micro and awareness for that, if you don't, don't worry, there are more suited infantry squads for players with lower skill who can't utilize ambush troops properly.

No, you can't, because you can't spawn other units behind enemy lines or wait in cover for perfect distance that gives you biggest advantage/throw sneaky nade.
Also, they are equally durable against tanks as any other 4 man squad in game.


Yes, specialist ambush squads require attention and micro for best result and will you better result then "regulars", that is, if you have micro and awareness for that, if you don't, don't worry, there are more suited infantry squads for players with lower skill who can't utilize ambush troops properly.

Perhaps the CAN be good, but reality is clear that Players who are good don't use or equip the Fallschimjaeger doctrine. I haven't noticed it equipped much less used in the last two tournaments(2v2 and 1v1). Nor have I seen it used to much effect or frequency in automatch, but If you have a good replay or if there is a cast of it I would be willing to check it out.

Edit: Oo I stand Corrected VonIvan is playing right now.
Edit2: He lost tho

Perhaps the CAN be good, but reality is clear that Players who are good don't use or equip the Fallschimjaeger doctrine. I haven't noticed it equipped much less used in the last two tournaments(2v2 and 1v1). Nor have I seen it used to much effect or frequency in automatch, but If you have a good replay or if there is a cast of it I would be willing to check it out.

Edit: Oo I stand Corrected VonIvan is playing right now,

You know why?
I'll tell you why.
Because it doesn't have command panther.
The moment CP will be tech bound, you'll start seeing other doctrines.

You know why?
I'll tell you why.
Because it doesn't have command panther.
The moment CP will be tech bound, you'll start seeing other doctrines.

Possibly, another compounding factor is that Going mech for a puma, luchs, stuka is much better than teching med truck, which synergizes with the doctrine much better. If you have to spend munis on healing you can't use the 3 muni abilities it comes with.

Sure it would be helpful.

Its not needed tho.

They are cover ambush fighters, if you are fighting out of cover with them, you failed.

If you need something to blob and a-move, you have obers and pfussies and jli.

IMO they should have stormtrooper RA though. They aren't quite storms or commandos with their inferior camo (which is justified because FG42s have way better damage profiles at range than suppressed stens or mp40s) and they are fairly expensive, 4 man squads that are supposed to be elite infantry. Yes, you should be using camo, but all the stuff I said holds true. Stormtrooper RA is apparently just slightly better btw.

I still think they are a great unit with great combat and utility capabilities though.

Alright so after reading the replies as well as doing some testing I've come to the conclusion that despite being very seldomly picked these days Luftwaffe Ground Forces is a very good commander.

I think the biggest thing that keeps the doctrine from being picked is the fact that it doesn't have any call ins or a howitzer, which I think is a shame because I genuinely hate indirect fire battles and call ins are extremely abusivable. I really hope that they finally make all call ins consistent and have them all locked behind tech because then people will actually have to think more about their commander line up instead of relying on emergency vehicles.

As for Fallschirmjägers, they are good and versatile, but I think that they are just a bit too expensive. 360 manpower instead of 380 manpower would make them a more viable option in my opinion.

Alright so after reading the replies as well as doing some testing I've come to the conclusion that despite being very seldomly picked these days Luftwaffe Ground Forces is a very good commander.

I think the biggest thing that keeps the doctrine from being picked is the fact that it doesn't have any call ins or a howitzer, which I think is a shame because I genuinely hate indirect fire battles and call ins are extremely abusivable. I really hope that they finally make all call ins consistent and have them all locked behind tech because then people will actually have to think more about their commander line up instead of relying on emergency vehicles.

As for Fallschirmjägers, they are good and versatile, but I think that they are just a bit too expensive. 360 manpower instead of 380 manpower would make them a more viable option in my opinion.

I really enjoy using the commander; all the muni abilities it has are excellent and synergize really well with aggressive infantry play, which is already OKW's thing anyway. I even really like falls but I do agree that they could use a slight RA buff, but keep in mind 380 is still a bargain considering they get camo and 4 FG42s straight out the gate. Keep in mind that paras cost 360 and have to use munitions to upgrade to fairly expensive slot weapons, and they don't get camo or snares either.