basic example for ukf it takes 30 + 115 to reach tanks , osther have 40 + 90 + tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3, so tier 2 and 3 are extra cost that are built in weapon and nade upgrades (like ukf can pay more for nades and weapons)
Okay now you have lost me.
As far as I remember, cost for osther teaching was only reshuffled main thing making BP2 costing more to ok make tier 4 viable.
If your relating this to grens (tier one) I don't know what you mean by cost increase. Please explain.
Edit: I assume you were relating to osther.
What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?
2 Aug 2019, 21:15 PM
#121
Posts: 4474
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 21:25 PM
#122
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
so do we just ignore the cost increase for teching ?
No you just dont treat it the same as tech costs that ONLY effect 1 unit and absolutely nothing else
2 Aug 2019, 21:30 PM
#123
Posts: 4474
other than giving rifle nade lmgs and sherk are there other things ?
No you just dont treat it the same as tech costs that ONLY effect 1 unit and absolutely nothing else
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 21:34 PM
#124
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
other than giving rifle nade lmgs and sherk are there other things ?
Yeah the UNITS. Sure you still have to build a 20 fuel building. But the 35 fuel you spend on Captain still goes towards Flak HT and Pak howy. Just because you spend another 20 before you get them doesnt mean it doesnt take 55 to unlock the tier
Meanwhile conscript side-techs dont contribute to your progression. That's why their called SIDE-techs
2 Aug 2019, 21:38 PM
#125
Posts: 4474
yes but it still cost more right ? i mean we can do it just say "the tier a re more expensive but who cares" cause the balance team made it so the cost of upgrades are integrated in the teching cost (for okw the trucks for ost the buildings or bp 1)
Yeah the UNITS. Sure you still have to build a 20 fuel building. But the 35 fuel you spend on Captain still goes towards Flak HT and Pak howy. Just because you spend another 20 before you get them doesnt mean it doesnt take 55 to unlock the tier
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 21:38 PM
#126
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
yes but it still cost more right ? i mean we can do it just say "the tier a re more expensive but who cares" cause the balance team made it so the cost of upgrades are integrated in the teching cost (for okw the trucks for ost the buildings or bp 1)
Costs more than what?
2 Aug 2019, 21:40 PM
#127
Posts: 4474
i made the example with ukf pretty clear, ost pays more than ukf to get to tier 3, but if u add the upgrades then it balances out, so to put it simply axis pay more for tech but get packaged and restricted upgrades
Costs more than what?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 21:48 PM
#128
Posts: 85
The 7 men upgrade absolutely makes merging great value. For example if you have Penals:
- Penals cost 25 manpower to reinforce and have 1 base RA.
- 7 men Cons cost 17 manpower to reinforce and have 1,087 base RA.
At vet 3, Penal models in a Penal squad will have 1*0,85 = 0,85 RA, while Con models will have 1*1,087*0,85 ≈ 0.924 RA. The difference becomes only 7,6% RA, while the models are 32% cheaper. All Soviet elite infantry start with 1 base RA, so it becomes even better value with them (except Shocks cause of armor). Could mean an extra tank worth of manpower in a match.
Now if only the upgrade made Conscripts reinforce double as fast..
0.97 for airborne guards
2 Aug 2019, 21:49 PM
#129
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
i made the example with ukf pretty clear, ost pays more than ukf to get to tier 3, but if u add the upgrades then it balances out, so to put it simply axis pay more for tech but get packaged and restricted upgrades
Yeah I saw that, that has nothing to do with conscripts. The point of talking about these side-techs is how they factor into the performance of the units they effect
You're saying its okay because it evens out in timing to late game tanks. That's irrelevant to armadillos point about 4 cons costing 291mp per squad, EVEN if you were talking about timing to soviet tier 4
2 Aug 2019, 22:06 PM
#130
Posts: 2358
I had to jump a few post, because there was just too much BS.
But i could see clearly that Gben pretends to either play SU like it were OH, or he deliverately plays SU the worst way possible against OH, like a meme thing. In both cases, dude stop, get some help. Balance is not a consequence of a single player win/loose rate. But it is from the whole playerbase.
There is not a single valid argument about conscripts to force that 10% DPS buff, pgrens are oranges, cons are apples. Dont compare them. Penals are always present, wether you use them or not. The whole SU faction suffers from carrying OP units like penals.
But i could see clearly that Gben pretends to either play SU like it were OH, or he deliverately plays SU the worst way possible against OH, like a meme thing. In both cases, dude stop, get some help. Balance is not a consequence of a single player win/loose rate. But it is from the whole playerbase.
There is not a single valid argument about conscripts to force that 10% DPS buff, pgrens are oranges, cons are apples. Dont compare them. Penals are always present, wether you use them or not. The whole SU faction suffers from carrying OP units like penals.
2 Aug 2019, 22:13 PM
#131
Posts: 4474
well it's not much about timing as u can rush the tanks for the same price as ukf, but miss all the tech units
Yeah I saw that, that has nothing to do with conscripts. The point of talking about these side-techs is how they factor into the performance of the units they effect
You're saying its okay because it evens out in timing to late game tanks. That's irrelevant to armadillos point about 4 cons costing 291mp per squad, EVEN if you were talking about timing to soviet tier 4
they simply pay upgrades in the tech (it would be a buff to reduce tech cost and add a side tech like 20 fuel for weapons upgrades)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 22:21 PM
#132
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
they simply pay upgrades in the tech (it would be a buff to reduce tech cost and add a side tech like 20 fuel for weapons upgrades)
Not if you removed fausts from them by default and moved it to that upgrade it wouldn't. Hello clown car meta forcing you to upgrade every game
2 Aug 2019, 22:22 PM
#133
Posts: 2358
Yeah I saw that, that has nothing to do with conscripts. The point of talking about these side-techs is how they factor into the performance of the units they effect
Yeah, lets completely change focus only on the conscript pityful side. "They need their side tech!" and because axis dont have to 'pay' for upgrades they are the white supremacist in this sort or race card you play.
To state this as clear as it will ever be:
Cons are much more versatile, because if you choose not to use them, they are as light as a feather to the "theching" queue. But if you were only to rely on them you end up paired with axis. Thats a win-win situation. Well played cons are not trash and we stated that in the first pages of this endless discussion. And finally doctrinal upgrades for SU can give the tools cons need without any necessary extra side tech. Or do you want to add that to the complaint bag? That they need doctrinal upgrades to be relevant.
I hear always the same arguments, but i have not seen a single idea other than buff cons to OP state or clone other factions concepts...
2 Aug 2019, 22:33 PM
#134
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I have suggested merging their tech costs for years. That is a plenty reasonable change that would not "buff cons to OP state"
Calm down
Calm down
2 Aug 2019, 22:34 PM
#135
Posts: 4474
why is faust tech now ? u mean for ostuppen ? or base ? if not do we count merge as tech ?
Not if you removed fausts from them by default and moved it to that upgrade it wouldn't. Hello clown car meta forcing you to upgrade every game
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 22:36 PM
#136
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
why is faust tech now ? u mean for ostuppen ? or base ? if not do we count merge as tech ?
Because at grenades are tech for conscripts?
Does building bunkers go into this new tech cost as well?
2 Aug 2019, 22:36 PM
#137
Posts: 2358
Because at grenades are tech for conscripts?
The fun part is that for OH, teching is BF only and buildings are its "side tech". In order to get/use faust OH player MUST build either T1 or T2. Thats clearly a side tech concept.
2 Aug 2019, 22:37 PM
#138
Posts: 366
basic example for ukf it takes 30 + 115 to reach tanks , osther have 40 + 90 + tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3, so tier 2 and 3 are extra cost that are built in weapon and nade upgrades (like ukf can pay more for nades and weapons)
Can I ask what's your example that is about the Soviets and about conscripts in question? Not about a faction that is irrelevant to the thread.
2 Aug 2019, 22:38 PM
#139
Posts: 4474
do sand bang too ?
Because at grenades are tech for conscripts?
Does building bunkers go into this new tech cost as well?
im counting upgardes that comes with tech like lmgs and rifle nades, not thing they have from the start like faust and merge or oorah
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Aug 2019, 22:40 PM
#140
Posts: 366
The fun part is that for OH, teching is BF only and buildings are its "side tech". In order to get/use faust OH player MUST build either T1 or T2. Thats clearly a side tech concept.
And you get access to more units, not improving upon one unit. Far out your all thick.
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