What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?
1 Aug 2019, 10:54 AM
#1
Posts: 14
As the title says, what are your opinions on Cons after the recent patch. Do you think they're now a viable option as opposed to going Penals? I personally find that the 7-man upgrade does very little to improve upon their performance. Even after being upgraded with a 7th man, they still lose to LMG Grens or StG Volks at all ranges. Not to mention that the upgrade comes way later at T4. I also find it a bit odd how people were complaining about their atrocious early-game performance, yet their late-game was buffed instead (and not by much either). But I digress, I wanna hear your opinions on the matter.
1 Aug 2019, 10:55 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Late game they are fine with the upgrade, but you'll never make it there if you rely on them in early game, especially OKW will just steamroll you silly.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Aug 2019, 11:31 AM
#3
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Pointlessly, for the Soviets, the Shock Troops are the main infantry, if at the start the conscripts can at least somehow resist the enemy infantry by the time of T4 you should already have the Shock Troops to really counteract the enemy infantry, by 10-15 minutes the Conscripts simply become meaningless, even The 7th person will not give you real help. Conscripts will be needed only for one purpose - to throw an AT grenade. The 7th person will not give you real goodness here. Therefore, I leave the weapon slot open, in order to take any LMG or grenade launcher, which makes the conscripts really stronger and more useful. If you pick up the MG-34 - damn, these guys become real strength and real support unit.
1 Aug 2019, 12:01 PM
#4
Posts: 1979
the upgrade for the conscript is really really good... ive been able to go toe to toe with LMG grens STG volks even LMG obers cost effectively using conscripts in yellow cover so long as u can avoid the grenades... thats on top of their utility as merger units ooraah rushers with a molotov and a snare...
HOWEVER
conscripts at the start of the game have the consistency of a wet noodle against anything... but most especially OKW since STG volks can practically bully conscripts out of the battle...
recommend making the 7 man upgrade to T3 and giving sliiight buffs to the stock conscript DPS...
HOWEVER
conscripts at the start of the game have the consistency of a wet noodle against anything... but most especially OKW since STG volks can practically bully conscripts out of the battle...
recommend making the 7 man upgrade to T3 and giving sliiight buffs to the stock conscript DPS...
1 Aug 2019, 12:04 PM
#5
Posts: 14
So, you're basically forced into making a tech structure if you want to go for Conscripts. In that case, wouldn't it be better if you just get whatever unit said tech structure provides? Penals, Maxims, etc. Although, I guess you need Cons to support your Maxims from being flanked but who even goes for Maxims nowadays.
1 Aug 2019, 12:09 PM
#6
Posts: 711
Problem that this upgrade don't help at all. You can't play through cons, all cons openings looks like russian roulete. Much safier play through penals.
IMHO current SU roster of units looks so weird:
Cons - useless, upgrade too late, molotovs useless and need upgrade, AT nade need upgrade. Weaker cons need fuel investments to have some usage and this don't make them on pair with other infantry. You still lose any engagements in open field.
From T2 you need only ZIS because maxim and mortar useless in current meta;
From T3 you need only T-70, M5 only as AA unit, SU-76 - useless.
And only T4 usefull - all units have place in game.
We have situation where playable only - CE, T1, zis, t-70 and T4. All other units don't have place. 4 units (5 with M5) become underdogs.
IMHO current SU roster of units looks so weird:
Cons - useless, upgrade too late, molotovs useless and need upgrade, AT nade need upgrade. Weaker cons need fuel investments to have some usage and this don't make them on pair with other infantry. You still lose any engagements in open field.
From T2 you need only ZIS because maxim and mortar useless in current meta;
From T3 you need only T-70, M5 only as AA unit, SU-76 - useless.
And only T4 usefull - all units have place in game.
We have situation where playable only - CE, T1, zis, t-70 and T4. All other units don't have place. 4 units (5 with M5) become underdogs.
1 Aug 2019, 12:11 PM
#7
Posts: 1979
the worst part is you would basically be forced to choose between a T-70 or viable mainline infantry in the 5-7 minute mark... this is in contrast to OKW which gets both viable mainline infantry and a luchs at the same time...
even if the upgrade were linked to T3 the STG volks would come out sooner though... but much more managable than before...
also mollys arent bad... i like them and use them constantly
it just goes to show how bad the stock soviet lineup is right now noting how most veteran players continue to opt for doctrinal upgrades (SVT and PPSH) in order to patch conscripts up earlier...
things are completely different 2v2 and above though... the choice between a T-70 and T4 is much easier there soo conscripts are actually fare better in those cases...
even if the upgrade were linked to T3 the STG volks would come out sooner though... but much more managable than before...
also mollys arent bad... i like them and use them constantly
it just goes to show how bad the stock soviet lineup is right now noting how most veteran players continue to opt for doctrinal upgrades (SVT and PPSH) in order to patch conscripts up earlier...
things are completely different 2v2 and above though... the choice between a T-70 and T4 is much easier there soo conscripts are actually fare better in those cases...
1 Aug 2019, 12:21 PM
#8
Posts: 573
Thats not what they needed. It's alright by itself but going Cons is pointless vs OKW anyway.
If balance team/Andy wanted more Con->T2 openings they should've either made SVT upgrade baseline or gave it to more doctrines/bundled it with something else (PPSh/Conscript Repair) because thats the only thing that makes them usable
If balance team/Andy wanted more Con->T2 openings they should've either made SVT upgrade baseline or gave it to more doctrines/bundled it with something else (PPSh/Conscript Repair) because thats the only thing that makes them usable
1 Aug 2019, 12:28 PM
#9
Posts: 1979
actually im inclined to think the 7 man upgrade is slightly superior to the SVT... since the DPS buff the in cover bonus + 1 man gives allows conscripts to crush LMG grens... this is on top of the reduction of MP reinforce to 17mp
also i really like the 20% veterancy bonus from the upgrade... it allows conscripts to hit vet 3 very quickly...
the real issue here is timing the upgrade simply comes too late... that and the maxim is still shit and is in dire need of love
also i really like the 20% veterancy bonus from the upgrade... it allows conscripts to hit vet 3 very quickly...
the real issue here is timing the upgrade simply comes too late... that and the maxim is still shit and is in dire need of love
1 Aug 2019, 12:31 PM
#10
Posts: 711
Why don't make ppsh nondoc? Give to 1 ppsh when build t1 or t2 and buy 2 other when t3 builded?
If nondoc weapon looks to "heresy"... I already suggested not combat buffs to cons, but make them cheapier and lightier to maintain. Fast speed of reinforce when T1 or T2 builded, decreased cost of reinforce (16 mp instead 20) when medics deployed and fasten sandbag instead flare mines.
If nondoc weapon looks to "heresy"... I already suggested not combat buffs to cons, but make them cheapier and lightier to maintain. Fast speed of reinforce when T1 or T2 builded, decreased cost of reinforce (16 mp instead 20) when medics deployed and fasten sandbag instead flare mines.
1 Aug 2019, 12:34 PM
#11
Posts: 1979
well technically the upgrades already do that...
for 50 muni u get
reduction to 17 mp per 80 HP model
30% DPS buff per model in cover
20% veterancy buff (remember that conscripts get crazy vet buffs)
+ 1 model (and 1 mosin)
for 50 muni u get
reduction to 17 mp per 80 HP model
30% DPS buff per model in cover
20% veterancy buff (remember that conscripts get crazy vet buffs)
+ 1 model (and 1 mosin)
1 Aug 2019, 12:40 PM
#12
Posts: 711
well technically the upgrades already do that...
for 50 muni u get
reduction to 17 mp per 80 HP model
30% DPS buff per model in cover
20% veterancy buff (remember that conscripts get crazy vet buffs)
+ 1 model (and 1 mosin)
In which timeframe i will get this? In my suggestion it will be early game. This why no one use cons, how you suppose to get Conc007 if you lose early and migame field pressure? Real situation when you lose earlier than T4 will be deployed and this cons007 will be usefull as "oxygen molecule for drowning man".
1 Aug 2019, 12:53 PM
#13
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
actually im inclined to think the 7 man upgrade is slightly superior to the SVT... since the DPS buff the in cover bonus + 1 man gives allows conscripts to crush LMG grens... this is on top of the reduction of MP reinforce to 17mp
also i really like the 20% veterancy bonus from the upgrade... it allows conscripts to hit vet 3 very quickly...
the real issue here is timing the upgrade simply comes too late... that and the maxim is still shit and is in dire need of love
Nope, SVT-40 surpasses this update, SVT improves performance in any situation - with cover, without cover, in motion. The 7th person only gives you a bonus in a static cover position, which makes you more vulnerable. SVT-40 real help, you don't even need a 20% bonus improvement. SVT-40 gives more damage - more damage - a quick veteran. 7th person the ridiculous role of improvement. Although at the same time, the Soviet paratroopers did not receive the abilities of their real role - acting behind enemy lines.
1 Aug 2019, 12:57 PM
#14
Posts: 1979
Nope, SVT-40 surpasses this update, SVT improves performance in any situation - with cover, without cover, in motion. The 7th person only gives you a bonus in a static cover position, which makes you more vulnerable. SVT-40 real help, 7th person the ridiculous role of improvement. Although at the same time, the Soviet paratroopers did not receive the abilities of their real role - acting behind enemy lines.
well one has to consider that the 30% DPS boost per model isnt the only advantage here... also consider the:
20% veterancy bonus (which allows cons to hit vet 3 faster)
+1 model (80 HP and 16% more DPS)
and most importantly
17MP reinforce cost
1 Aug 2019, 13:06 PM
#15
Posts: 1487
Aganst okw just amove them always. Against grens there is no solution other than sniper start.
I would just nerf mg42 to 34 or maxim level
I would just nerf mg42 to 34 or maxim level
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1 Aug 2019, 13:06 PM
#16
Posts: 711
well one has to consider that the 30% DPS boost per model isnt the only advantage here... also consider the:
20% veterancy bonus (which allows cons to hit vet 3 faster)
+1 model (80 HP and 16% more DPS)
and most importantly
17MP reinforce cost
TIMEFRAME!!! Veterancy boost useless, overall upgrade looks as tiny attempt to do from cons something more neither canon fodder and your MP drain.
What i will say to pgrens (don't forget that they will arrive much sooner than before patch) and volks - "Can you don't push me until i will get my T4 and make upgrade. Thank you." SVT from airborne you will get on 1 CP.
1 Aug 2019, 13:08 PM
#17
Posts: 1979
TIMEFRAME!!! Veterancy boost useless, overall upgrade looks as tiny attempt to do from cons something more neither canon fodder and your MP drain.
What i will say to pgrens (don't forget that they will arrive much sooner than before patch) and volks - "Can you don't push me until i will get my T4 and make upgrade. Thank you." SVT from airborne you will get on 1 CP.
thats why id like the 7 man upgrade to be tied with T3 instead of T4... we dont need nondoc PPSH or nondoc SVT... just tie 7th man to T3
1 Aug 2019, 13:17 PM
#18
Posts: 711
Initially cons must be core around which builds all SU gameplay. But now...
Looks like penals still real mainline SU infantry, while cons only against more weakier opponent or for experimental builds with doctrinal weapon.
i don't uderstand one thing - all normal infantry in game have grenades, and only cons have lolotovs. Why don't make it more usefull, like white phosphorus grenade?
Looks like penals still real mainline SU infantry, while cons only against more weakier opponent or for experimental builds with doctrinal weapon.
i don't uderstand one thing - all normal infantry in game have grenades, and only cons have lolotovs. Why don't make it more usefull, like white phosphorus grenade?
1 Aug 2019, 13:36 PM
#19
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
actually im inclined to think the 7 man upgrade is slightly superior to the SVT
It was designed to be slightly better than the SVT upgrade, because the SVT upgrade comes a lot sooner. SVTs are good for the early-mid game, while the 7th man is better for the late game.
1 Aug 2019, 13:44 PM
#20
Posts: 711
It was designed to be slightly better than the SVT upgrade, because the SVT upgrade comes a lot sooner. SVTs are good for the early-mid game, while the 7th man is better for the late game.
This "slightly" not cost losed field pressure on early-midgame. Dealed damage from SVT will give you more experience for cons and make your path to lategame less "stressfull". From these arguments con007 don't looks shine, right? Because without SVT, it will be looks as i said before (say Hi! to Pgrens and volks).
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