Walking stuka needs some adjustments

The walking stuka is a big pain in the butt from early game to midgame. I suggest moving it behind flak base or nerfing it. The unit being able to one shot squads and team weapons is a big issue before tanks come into play.

My suggestion is to keep it in mech but only unlocks after flak base is set up. Or nerf it so it can't kill squads or team weapons before flak is setup.

The walking stuka is great against people who dont move their units when they hear the rocket launch.

The walking stuka is bad against people who do move their units when they hear the rocket launch.

The simplest solution would be to roll it into an OKW tech rework, where each tier could unlock more tech after researching medics, repair, or a theoretical Flack38 upgrade on each of the trucks. This would say unlock Obers in t1, Stuka in t2 and P4, and PV in t3.

I think the best thing to do would be to make it shoot in a circle and give it the brummbar treatment. High blast AoE but small instant kill radius. Rather difficult to balance though when the animation is 6 massive rockets as opposed to 8-20 medium sized ones.

The walking stuka is great against people who dont move their units when they hear the rocket launch.

The walking stuka is bad against people who do move their units when they hear the rocket launch.

What's that make the katyusha then? You can easily dodge 3/4 of the rockets if you're paying attention. And "just move" is BS, you can easily lose team weapons even if you move them right away. Not likes there's flares telling you where they are falling...

Really don't think any artillery unit should ignore the LoS and range rules that effect the rest of them

I don't think this unit is necessary before flak Hq is setup. Everyone is using in 2's to get cheesey wipes. It should never delete full health squads at 8 minutes.

What's that make the katyusha then? You can easily dodge 3/4 of the rockets if you're paying attention.

Instant R smash or get wiped.close range katyusha volleys are deadly, seriously. Stukas on the other side are not.

I think you are exaggerating, Not even neo in matrix was able to dodge that much.

Honestly, if the command panther gets tied to tech, I don't think it will be an issue for anyone.

I think it's _fine_ as is, but my guess is that in many cases the ability to avoid teching the Schwer means extra fuel is spent on mechanized meaning luchs/puma/stuka.

Well, if you can't get a proper heavy for the late-game without Schwer, getting a stuka can really put you behind, so it's a legitimate trade-off IMO.

Imo a tech rework for OKW (yes, another one) is the correct solution, because rocket art is normalized on late stages teching, the problem is that Wstukas are a useful unit on a peak point in the game where team weapons dominate

Smash retreat? That's the worst thing you can do, a competent player will just set the rockets on retreat path

Yeah a close range Katy is great. That's because it follows the rules of range, just like every other artillery piece in the game

Instant R smash or get wiped.close range katyusha volleys are deadly, seriously. Stukas on the other side are not.

I think you are exaggerating, Not even neo in matrix was able to dodge that much.

Yea, but you must move katy to close range - it's risk. While stuka 0 risk. Your rockets always hitted to those places where you aimed. Don't forget, that on some maps route to retreat very obvious, that made even good retreat very coin flipping event.
In rocket arty always must be element of "high risk-high reward" mechanic. Want to increase your chances to wipe squads? Move your tiny healthy arty closer to front.

Imo a tech rework for OKW (yes, another one) is the correct solution, because rocket art is normalized on late stages teching, the problem is that Wstukas are a useful unit on a peak point in the game where team weapons dominate

But it often deletes squads too, and okw have flame nades and leigs. If players are telling me to use usf's sh-t mortar than maybe those players should use leigs

Edit: I think i missworded my opinion about wstukas. Their volleys are deadly. They close range volleys not so much.

Yea, but you must move katy to close range - it's risk. While stuka 0 risk.

True but fair at the same time

Your rockets always hitted to those places where you aimed. Don't forget, that on some maps route to retreat very obvious, that made even good retreat very coin flipping event.

Of course, there is the skill of both players, the one retreating and the one aiming. A cat and mouse game at its best. Retreat too soon and you are predictable.

In rocket arty always must be element of "high risk-high reward" mechanic. Want to increase your chances to wipe squads? Move your tiny healthy arty closer to front.

Thats the weakest point of Wstukas, their high risk/high reward is the surprise effect of long range accurate volleys. If you can see where it is aiming is rather easy to detect the firing pattern.

I still think, like shadowlink said, the AoE of the Stuka should be circular rather than linear (or at least shrink it while adjusting the damage of each rocket)

But it often deletes squads too, and okw have flame nades and leigs.

okw flame nades are fired from wstukas?
leigs are doctrinal, dont forget that little detail, there is a whole different kind of arguments for that.

Edit2:
I think another solution could be to add a model to the game, a 251 without the rockets, and put it with a weapon upgrade. Adjust cost as convenient.
Or simply lock wstukas behind T3 being built.

Yeah, its terribly designed

Six precision shots in a row…

Needs to be worse at wiping single units that are even trying to dodge and better at countering blobs

What's that make the katyusha then? You can easily dodge 3/4 of the rockets if you're paying attention. And "just move" is BS, you can easily lose team weapons even if you move them right away. Not likes there's flares telling you where they are falling...

Really don't think any artillery unit should ignore the LoS and range rules that effect the rest of them

There is a non negligible difference between the time on target of a Stuka and a Katusha.

Furthermore due to the line of the Stuka and the limited number of rockets, moving in 9/10 directions and youll be fine, that is not true with a circle of a katusha.

It deffinently would be cool if okw had a halftrack that could upgrade to the walking stuka after flak hq is setup. Maybe make it a clone to the mortar half-track.

Yeah, its terribly designed

Six precision shots in a row…

Needs to be worse at wiping single units that are even trying to dodge and better at countering blobs

That is related to the actual IRL wstuka firing pattern, the rockets were all aimed at the same angle, the vehicle then launched a single rocket, advanced a few meters, fire again and repeat. At the other end the rockets fell exactly at the same pattern the vehicle did. The rockets were fairly precise and the game mimics that.

In the actual game it can be a little unfair because you can always rotate the angle of the line the rockets land, you can even shoot them backwards. If the aoe were linear but always aligned to the wstuka it would requile lots, lots of skill to get 2-3 teamweapons in the same volley.

There is a non negligible difference between the time on target of a Stuka and a Katusha.

Furthermore due to the line of the Stuka and the limited number of rockets, moving in 9/10 directions and youll be fine, that is not true with a circle of a katusha.

No one is arguing about the lethality of the walking stuka, we are arguing that the lethality comes too early.

The funniest thing about the Walking StuKa is that people who click directly on the squad they want to hit, will never whipe it and usually not really damage it, as there is a tiny gap in between the 2x3 rockets. Very frustrating to find out...


Back on topic though:
What do you want to do with the StuKa? Not every unit has to be super unique, but a circular firing pattern with random hits inside the circle would basically make it another Panzerwerfer. While the Panzerwerfer is not bad, that would be a shame for unit diversity in the game.
I like the line firing pattern of the StuKa, as it really is able to punish static squads. But I also think it's to whipy, especially on maps that support lane-combat that funnel infantry into defined spaces. I would not say that it is OP though, it's a huge gamble. Often even the defending player knows which squads are being attacked and which not, just by looking at the positioning of his own units. So if the defender reacts in time or the attacker is slightly off the mark, most of the time nothing happens, while on other occasions, you can easily whipe 2 squads.

Two suggestions that we (or better: the balance team if it is interested) could use to make the StuKa different:
1. (already suggested) adjust AoE profile to broader, less whipy stats
2. (if possible) slightly increase the time that the rockets need to hit the ground. Gives the defender a bit more time to react, but he still has to predict where the shots will land. This would be just a nerf, though. Don't know if that is necessary

No one is arguing about the lethality of the walking stuka, we are arguing that the lethality comes too early.

Please point out where I quote someone talking about its timing.

There is a non negligible difference between the time on target of a Stuka and a Katusha.

Furthermore due to the line of the Stuka and the limited number of rockets, moving in 9/10 directions and youll be fine, that is not true with a circle of a katusha.

The circle which comes in 4 sets of 4, so you have plenty of time to dodge most of the rockets

I would like it to be cheaper and delayed in timing. And i agree with adamiricz, it should be better against blobs, worse at deleting single units