Mech sherman 76

Anyone feel like this tank is a bit lack luster? For one it micro taxes the hell out of you and I feel like the round change timer is way too long to be able to plausibly use it effectively. I do not mind the micro tax but if you consider the micro and timers it takes AND how un reliable and un effective it seems to be. I think the round change timer and micro is ok if the rounds actually did what they were suppose to. Im not a stat guy i know a lot of you are but something seems off with it, it missed all the time, feels buggy when it fires, produces little results when using AI rounds vs AI, AT vs At. Wtf is its place when it is not effective at either, id rather it cost more if it could do BOTH of those things better. It should be able to not like it has amazing armor hp speed or anything really. I mean ive had a few miracle moments with it but ive also had at guns kill snipers so. I mean why cannot it not be a risky tank to charge a panther against if it has the right rounds, right now its not just another pos sherman version that even 2 of them a panther easily bullys both that dosent work because its lack luster in both departments.

Ya it's okay, It would be better to get an m4a3 vs infantry and a jackson vs tanks. The m4a3's in that doctrine get 700 hp and bonus armor which is a massive edge over the m4c.

I think it is okay in the AT role, but it gets a 50% longer reload with HVAP and the penetration is only really good when your up close on that ammo.

It doesn't need to be as good as either default tank but it could certainly perform much better and without overshadowing the m4a3's HE shells or the Jackson's AT capacity.

Having more HP, a better HVAP reload or doing slightly better vs infantry could help this tank become a more competitive option.

Possibly giving the offmap barrage to the 76 mm sherman like the jeep has now could also help vs say at gun spam.

Ya it's okay, It would be better to get an m4a3 vs infantry and a jackson vs tanks. The m4a3's in that doctrine get 700 hp and bonus armor which is a massive edge over the m4c.

i want a sherman that can fight panthers, the reg sherman is a better choice in that doct for adding armor idk that the 76 has any bonus armor just the round switching ability but both rounds suck at doing there job, why cant the at round have jackson like pen? I dont see how it would make it too strong it still has to get closer and could possibly defend its self against panthers, that and the AI round is shit. Tired of jacksons and ai infantry every game.

Edit let me be clear of course not win 1v1 against a panther just be able to pen one or other axis tanks that get out of position, or making a panther pay for diving.

i want a sherman that can fight panthers, the reg sherman is a better choice in that doct for adding armor idk that the 76 has any bonus armor just the round switching ability but both rounds suck at doing there job, why cant the at round have jackson like pen? I dont see how it would make it too strong it still has to get closer and could possibly defend its self against panthers, that and the AI round is shit. Tired of jacksons and ai infantry every game.

The AP round has like 220 penetration at close range (Panther has 300 armor) but at like mid range and long range its only like 20 or 30 better penetration than the Anti infantry round, which has a 4 second reload rather than a 6 second one

Edit:
M4C sherman

HVAP penetration at 220/180/165; standard rounds have a penetration of 140/130/120.
HVAP accuracy at 0.06/0.0425/0.035; standard rounds have 0.05/0.0375/0.025.
HVAP reload at 6.1; standard rounds have 4.1/4.5 reload.
HVAP AOE radius at 0.25; standard rounds have a radius of 2.

Ammo	Reload	Near	Mid	Far
HVAP	6.1	220	180	165
Standard	4.1/4.5	140	130	120
Jackson	4.38/5	260	240	220

The AP round has like 220 penetration at close range (Panther has 300 armor) but at like mid range and long range its only like 20 or 30 better penetration than the Anti infantry round, which has a 4 second reload rather than a 6 second one

Edit: Im gonna edit in the penetration stats if i can find them in patch notes

pening at farther ranges would help, it dosent have super range or vision

i want a sherman that can fight panthers

It can do that with its HVAP rounds. It's a good tank.

The problem isn't the 76mm: it's the uparmouring upgrade it's bundled with. That upgrade makes standard Shermans able to reliably beat enemy medium tanks, leaving the 76mm without a niche to fill.

Those two abilites tread on each other's toes hard and shouldn't really be in the same commander.

It can do that with its HVAP rounds. It's a good tank.

The problem isn't the 76mm: it's the uparmouring upgrade it's bundled with. That upgrade makes standard Shermans able to reliably beat enemy medium tanks, leaving the 76mm without a niche to fill.

Those two abilites tread on each other's toes hard and shouldn't really be in the same commander.

Problem is HVAP rounds are too inaccurate, have a reduced fire rate and not enough pen at medium range, two of them with HVAP are still largely ineffective against panthers or tigers, not to mention at that given moment you better have the right round equipped if not you have to switch and its a dead tank. Ai rounds also suck but id be happy with them present if the HVAP did something more.

EDIT by dead tank i mean its inna state of purgatory, should it really have a longer shot timer on HVAP, when there is already a coold down on timer on switching rounds like?

two of them with HVAP are still largely ineffective against panthers or tigers

Stationary range 40 duel, two 76mm Shermans versus one Panther. This is ideal conditions for the Panther.

Tested 40 times.

36 Sherman wins.
28 Sherman wins with both Shermans surviving.

I'd hardly call a 90% chance of victory 'largely ineffective'.

The AP round has like 220 penetration at close range (Panther has 300 armor) but at like mid range and long range its only like 20 or 30 better penetration than the Anti infantry round, which has a 4 second reload rather than a 6 second one

Edit:
M4C sherman

HVAP penetration at 220/180/165; standard rounds have a penetration of 140/130/120.
HVAP accuracy at 0.06/0.0425/0.035; standard rounds have 0.05/0.0375/0.025.
HVAP reload at 6.1; standard rounds have 4.1/4.5 reload.
HVAP AOE radius at 0.25; standard rounds have a radius of 2.

Ammo	Reload	Near	Mid	Far
HVAP	6.1	220	180	165
Standard	4.1/4.5	140	130	120
Jackson	4.38/5	260	240	220

Panther has 260 armor and 286 at vet 2.

As far as the rest of thread is concerned..... P O W E R C R E E P

Anyone feel like this tank is a bit lack luster? For one it micro taxes the hell out of you and I feel like the round change timer is way too long to be able to plausibly use it effectively. I do not mind the micro tax but if you consider the micro and timers it takes AND how un reliable and un effective it seems to be. I think the round change timer and micro is ok if the rounds actually did what they were suppose to. Im not a stat guy i know a lot of you are but something seems off with it, it missed all the time, feels buggy when it fires, produces little results when using AI rounds vs AI, AT vs At. Wtf is its place when it is not effective at either, id rather it cost more if it could do BOTH of those things better. It should be able to not like it has amazing armor hp speed or anything really. I mean ive had a few miracle moments with it but ive also had at guns kill snipers so. I mean why cannot it not be a risky tank to charge a panther against if it has the right rounds, right now its not just another pos sherman version that even 2 of them a panther easily bullys both that dosent work because its lack luster in both departments.

They never feel like they're much better than a standard Sherman. They have the same armor and hit points so they die to four shots of just about anything, all for a little more fuel and manpower than the standard Sherman. I'd always rather have one Jackson and one Scott than two of these. I would have much preferred an Easy 8 in the doctrine, even with its inconsistent main gun.

They never feel like they're much better than a standard Sherman. They have the same armor and hit points so they die to four shots of just about anything, all for a little more fuel and manpower than the standard Sherman. I'd always rather have one Jackson and one Scott than two of these. I would have much preferred an Easy 8 in the doctrine, even with its inconsistent main gun.

They *are* much better than normal Shermans, they also scale much better into lategame thanks to HVAP. Even without HVAP they are better against mediums thanks to faster reload.

It's not that 76mm are underperforming, it just they has same issues as other allied mediums - getting TD + something else is almost always safer choice

It's OK. I mean, there's not too much reason to build one, since the regular M4 does AI better and the M36 does AT better, but in a pinch its a platform that lets you do both for much less total cost and population. I don't think it needs a buff or anything at all.

The real issue in Mechanized Company is the fact that the M3 halftrack is totally useless, never to be seen in competitive play (especially after the bazooka bus strat got nerfed to hell), but overall its one of the few USF commanders that is actually competitive versus OKW and so I would rather avoid touching it lest it get totally fucked up and doom me to playing Armor Company forever.

Maybe if the Combined Arms ability was more accessible....

I guess I'll try it again, but I assume there's a reason I never see it used.

Redundancy.

People don't build good units if they can build great units that do the same thing. The M3 is a good unit, but most of what it does is also done by the much cheaper, much earlier arriving WC51.

Same with the 76mm. Why get two 76mms when you could get an uparmoured 75mm and a Jackson?

I don't know I feel like it's a better deal than an Easy 8. The problem though is compared to a bulldozer Sherman it's not that great because in this game you are facing mostly infantry and crewed weapons the majority of the time. A Dozer Sherman can 1v1 a Panzer 4 (Ost P4) and efficiently kill infantry with its HE rounds. If the enemy rolls out a Panther than you need a Jackson.

The only time I usually get a Sherman 76mm is if the enemy rolls out a medium tank first and they're using quite a few vehicles.

I never use this tank either. It's crap. I think it needs more armor, like at least 180?

Redundancy.

People don't build good units if they can build great units that do the same thing. The M3 is a good unit, but most of what it does is also done by the much cheaper, much earlier arriving WC51.

Same with the 76mm. Why get two 76mms when you could get an uparmoured 75mm and a Jackson?

What is "good" unit and what is "great" unit? Do you use 76mm sherman in your games? Do you have any replays by chance?

I agree with redundancy. USF has good stock tank destroyer and cheap doctrinal one. They dont need another pseudo tank destroyer with 640hp and 40 range that fails to penetrate panther most time. 76mm sherman is awful and its not being used by USF or soviet. And even if it was added to UKF and axis it would still be useless.

They dont need another pseudo tank destroyer with 640hp and 40 range that fails to penetrate panther most time

Panther frontal armour = 260

HVAP Penetration Near/Mid/Far = 220/180/165

220/260 = 85% to penetrate
180/260 = 69% to penetrate
165/260 = 63% to penetrate


If the Panther has Vet Skirts and the 76mm has no veterancy:

Panther frontal armour = 286

220/286 = 77% to penetrate
180/286 = 63% to penetrate
165/286 = 58% to penetrate

Minimum chance to penetrate a Panther is 58%, and that's a Vet 0 76mm against an vetted Panther under ideal conditions for the Panther.

58% > 50%.

Ergo "fails to penetrate panther most time" isn't true.