Pgrens and penals need some changes

Pgrens with vet cannot "handle upgraded rifles or 5 man Tommies easy" with similar vet. They get demolished much like any other infantry squad. Double bar Vet 3 rifles / Double bren vet 3 IS are undisputedly the strongest, most cost efficient on-map squads in the game.



Don't invest in an LV and try to push with it into shrek squads; they're designed to counter that kind of play. Go for an AAHT/Quad and suppress the shreks at range, they'll have no counter to it since they have to ATG.

As for the 'muni surpluss', between 100 muni shrecks, 60muni "bolster", 60muni LMG42, grenades, etc. ost isn't floating a lot of muni early game.

Why don't you open up testmod instead of talking trash? Vet 3 pgrens more than stand their own in most engagements against 5 man Tommies, unless you're sitting in cover at long range with perfect conditions pgrens will win. That's not even factoring in the nuke grenade that's a copy of the commando one

Then there's stuff like their accuracy on the move that's some of the best in the game helping for wipes. Vet3 rifles come close with double BAR but they're going to be seal clubbed until you fork out 120muni a squad.

Someone would think pgrens are ostruppen by the way you talk about them

Why don't you open up testmod instead of talking trash? Vet 3 pgrens more than stand their own in most engagements against 5 man Tommies, unless you're sitting in cover at long range with perfect conditions pgrens will win. That's not even factoring in the nuke grenade that's a copy of the commando one

Then there's stuff like their accuracy on the move that's some of the best in the game helping for wipes. Vet3 rifles come close with double BAR but they're going to be seal clubbed until you fork out 120muni a squad.

Someone would think pgrens are ostruppen by the way you talk about them

I think you greatly underestimate buffed quad and equally overestimate incendiary rounds hmg.
Unless you're trying to bait M5 in and faust it too, HMG will be murderfucked before it reloads and traverses to fire.

Pgrens with shrecks are also not hard to outmaneuver with an LV. Don't just wait for them to show up and fire their volley at you, think about where they are and avoid them, there is only 1, if your opponent will go for more shrecks he won't have enough infantry to fight your infantry. The reason the OST player doesn't necessarily loose at this point is MG42s, which you would have enough MP to counter with mortars/sniper, unless you bled a lot.

30 minutes ago i watched Dane stream, where Price used 2 PG and Commando squad (i forgot how called this ost unit) with shrecks. With camo and sprint all 3 squad easily engaged against centaur and could in lategame dealed around 60-70% damage to Crocodile (it needs some micro, but result more than cost of it).
You miss the moment, that OST could buy camo for PGrens and you find them only when they will fire the whole swarm of rockets into you armor.
Look at this moment in lategame

He literally said nerf penals AND pgrens. And you found a way to see that as biased...

Again u didn't get my comment. Penals have been super cost efficient for at least a year now. During that time, did SuperHansFan make a post about how penals were too good? No. But now when pgrens are bumped up to their level, he realizes that when Ostheer inf is on the same power level, he doesn't like it anymore and insists on a nerf to both infantry. He's obviously reluctant on nerfing penals, since he didn't ask for a penal nerf much earlier. He only asked for a penal nerf just to "seem" fair when asking for a pgren nerf.

He only asked for a penal nerf just to "seem" fair when asking for a pgren nerf.

How about you talk about the idea for the nerf instead of why you think the OP wants nerfs

Also you shouldn't have any problem with someone being biased, you do it all the time

How about you talk about the idea for the nerf instead of why you think the OP wants nerfs

Also you shouldn't have any problem with someone being biased, you do it all the time

Why should we change anything? If we nerf penals and pgrens, how are EFA supposed to compete with better WFA mainlines?

Why should we change anything? If we nerf penals and pgrens, how are EFA supposed to compete with better WFA mainlines?

That's a fair question. Start with this next time instead of launching some grand conspiracy

IMO Grens and Cons dont really fall off until upgrades hit the field for western mainlines. So maybe just improve the scaling of AI pgrens and AI penals but weaken them to start off. And change costs accordingly

Idk its definitely complicated. Ideally I just think the WFA mainlines just shouldnt be as strong as they are. I think most ppl see it that way, but here we are

That's a fair question. Start with this next time instead of launching some grand conspiracy

IMO Grens and Cons dont really fall off until upgrades hit the field for western mainlines. So maybe just improve the scaling of AI pgrens and AI penals but weaken them to start off. And change costs accordingly

Idk its definitely complicated. Ideally I just think the WFA mainlines just shouldnt be as strong as they are. I think most ppl see it that way, but here we are

WFA mainlines are definately too strong. Volks have been too good for 4 straight patches. The nerfs that they received a while ago were certainly not enough. I doubt they'll be touched again. Sections basically got a major buff with the sapper snare since the AEC is no longer a necessity but a luxury, making 5 min bolster commonplace. I doubt these WFA mainlines will be change anytime soon, so like you said, unfortunately, here we are.

You want to laugh? Bolstered tommies arrive at roughly the same time

You want to laugh? Bolstered tommies arrive at roughly the same time

Want to laugh even harder?
Bolstered tommies DELAY your tank tech, not speed it up.

“The counter to premium infantry is light vehicles, but pgrens and penal builds instead of being punished by this counter allow you at a click of a button to convert an AT squad“

and thus lose to every single mainline infantry, thus not needing light vehicles to be countered.

/thread

Want to laugh even harder?
Bolstered tommies DELAY your tank tech, not speed it up.

Oh no! Just get many bolstered tommies, sapper squad with at nade and an at gun.

Why should we change anything? If we nerf penals and pgrens, how are EFA supposed to compete with better WFA mainlines?

Well 1) WFA mainlines aren't actually better all things considered

2) Cheaper and better and more readily available support weapons and upgrades more than make for any slight advange USF or UKF infantry have.

It's not enough the Axis factions have the best tanks, engineer units, team weapons, heavies, they have to have the best infantry too with free upgrades and abilites. Yep this is the CoH2 community sounds about right. Hey why don't we nerf the Jackson and Churchill too while we're at it.

Well 1) WFA mainlines aren't actually better all things considered

2) Cheaper and better and more readily available support weapons and upgrades more than make for any slight advange USF or UKF infantry have.

It's not enough the Axis factions have the best tanks, engineer units, team weapons, heavies, they have to have the best infantry too with free upgrades and abilites. Yep this is the CoH2 community sounds about right. Hey why don't we nerf the Jackson and Churchill too while we're at it.

Best ultra light: M3
Best light vehicle: T70
Best light vehicle counter: Puma/Teller mine
Best non-doctrinal medium tank: OKW P4
Best medium tank: Sherman EZ8/T34-85
Best tank destroyer: Jackson
Best heavy tank: Churchill Crocodile
Best call-in tank: Command Panther
Best super heavy: Elefant

Best AT Gun: Pak40
Best HMG: MG42
Best mortar: Grw43
Best rocket artillery: Walking Stuka
Best heavy artillery: Priest

Best Engineers: Assault Engineers/Sturmpios
Best mainline infantry (early): Infantry Sections
Best mainline infantry (late): Infantry Sections
Best non-doc elite infantry: Obers
Best elite infantry: Shock Troops
Best anti-tank elite infantry: Rangers with triple Elite Zooks

Indeed those Axis-faction Soviets, Brits, and USF sure have awesome units.

It's almost like each faction has its own advantages and strong units, while having certain weaknesses in its roster. When you only play one faction your brain starts to grow mould, and you won't be able to see the advantages that your faction gets, nor will you be able to realise the disadvantages that other factions are suffering.

Best ultra light: M3
Best light vehicle: T70
Best light vehicle counter: Puma/Teller mine
Best non-doctrinal medium tank: OKW P4
Best medium tank: Sherman EZ8/T34-85
Best tank destroyer: Jackson
Best heavy tank: Churchill Crocodile
Best call-in tank: Command Panther
Best super heavy: Elefant

Best AT Gun: Pak40
Best HMG: MG42
Best mortar: Grw43
Best rocket artillery: Walking Stuka
Best heavy artillery: Priest

Best Engineers: Assault Engineers/Sturmpios
Best mainline infantry (early): Infantry Sections
Best mainline infantry (late): Infantry Sections
Best non-doc elite infantry: Obers
Best elite infantry: Shock Troops
Best anti-tank elite infantry: Rangers with triple Elite Zooks

Indeed those Axis-faction Soviets, Brits, and USF sure have awesome units.

It's almost like each faction has its own advantages and strong units, while having certain weaknesses in its roster. When you only play one faction your brain starts to grow mould, and you won't be able to see the advantages that your faction gets, nor will you be able to realise the disadvantages that other factions are suffering.

Double Schreks/free snares on almost every Axis infantry unit = Allied light vehicles are completely irrelevant.

Most of what you mentioned for Allies is doctrinal and locked behind a ton of CPs to ensure they come too late to make a difference.

Double Schreks/free snares on almost every Axis infantry unit = Allied light vehicles are completely irrelevant.

Perhaps on your skill level where people just walk into snare range.

Furthermore, what happens when a Gren Snares a vehicle? Its not like OST has a great light vehicle to finish it off.

Perhaps on your skill level where people just walk into snare range.

Furthermore, what happens when a Gren Snares a vehicle? Its not like OST has a great light vehicle to finish it off.

Did you forget the double schreks?

Did you forget the double schreks?

Not every axis unit have double shreks.

Plus if double shreks hit the field and vehicles are less effective, dealwithit.jpg, thats kinda the point of them.

Not every axis unit have double shreks.

Plus if double shreks hit the field and vehicles are less effective, dealwithit.jpg, thats kinda the point of them.

So why is anyone bringing up Allied light vehicles as if they matter because with friggen T0 double schrek panzergrens they're completely irrelevant.