Ostwind's penetrations

Well. That's completely not what I meant. The author of the post suggested that ostwind wipes infantry most of all units. I gave examples of allied units which wipe like crazy. For 4 man aquads t70 is highly dangerous and can really wipe them. That's what I meant.

i was not responding to u tho ???

2 222 > 1 T-70
I grabbed achievements once through the cheatmode so countless (>50) M3A1 could take 1/3 of Panzer's 4 HP. Then I finally got that p4 3-vet achievement and closed the game but spending 10 more minutes I could kill panzer with that cars, I guarantee it!
L2P issue ©

This thread has gone full troll mode now
Animedude, read all the 12 pages of post before and you will realize that all your points were already discussed.

I must insist that you keep using personal feelings as descriptions and those are not valid at all, because not everyone shares your point of view.

Ostwind after buff is now a centaur+extra pen. Because centaurs can pen a puma and a luchs they are new even.

i was not responding to u tho ???

Oooops......

This thread has gone full troll mode now
Animedude, read all the 12 pages of post before and you will realize that all your points were already discussed.

I must insist that you keep using personal feelings as descriptions and those are not valid at all, because not everyone shares your point of view.

Ostwind after buff is now a centaur+extra pen. Because centaurs can pen a puma and a luchs they are new even.

I actually test it in cheatmod. When against multiple squads(2 4-man RE zook teams coming up front,because 2 sherck teams may disable both of them with a salvo) Ostwind performs better than Centaur.
Ur insistence may also a personal feeling

are u for real ? are u saying that t 70 come at the same time as ostwind ? did u gift 70 fu to ur opponent ? already by getting to phase 2 without building any other tier is 140 fuel to get to t 70 u need around 100 fuel depending on what tier u chose,

the 2 factions are different, but they both in T3. Tier is not always consistence to timing though.

I actually test it in cheatmod. When against multiple squads(2 4-man RE zook teams coming up front,because 2 sherck teams may disable both of them with a salvo) Ostwind performs better than Centaur.
Ur insistence may also a personal feeling

To test the performance of a AI mediums by throwing at them infantry is a questionable experiment and a very bad thinking if you are actually ingame.
You forgot to show the experiment procedure, data and conclusions, because no one is going to believe the "Ostwind performs better than Centaur" as an hypothesis, out of just the same void you did the experiment.

Could you please test also what happens when ATguns face a stationary puma/T70? I wonder what will happen.

the 2 factions are different, but they both in T3. Tier is not always consistence to timing though.

no, by ur logic usf has 5 tiers

and soviet literally has tier 1 and 2 at the same timing and 5 fu difference in price, would u like to compare it to osther whom has to pay 40 fu even before getting tier 2 online ?

no, by ur logic usf has 5 tiers

and soviet literally has tier 1 and 2 at the same timing and 5 fu difference in price, would u like to compare it to osther whom has to pay 40 fu even before getting tier 2 online ?

10 fuel difference not 5. You'd also have to include conscript side-techs if you're gonna compare it to Osts teching

He also said tiers don't necessarily mean consistent timing, so idk why you're trying to explain a point he already made

10 fuel difference not 5. You'd also have to include conscript side-techs if you're gonna compare it to Osts teching

He also said tiers don't necessarily mean consistent timing, so idk why you're trying to explain a point he already made

so ur point is that ost tier 3 is = to soviet tier 3 ?

so ur point is that ost tier 3 is = to soviet tier 3 ?

No and it wasn't his either, I don't know how you're able to misread that

"Tier timing is not consistent" he said. Somehow you're taking that as someone saying their equal?

All I'm saying is your exaggerating the fuel differences/you had some numbers wrong

No and it wasn't his either, I don't know how you're able to misread that

"Tier timing is not consistent" he said. Somehow you're taking that as someone saying their equal?

All I'm saying is your exaggerating the fuel differences/you had some numbers wrong

dude he was arguing that the ostwind should have similar performance to the t 70, when 1 cost more fuel, and it cost higher to tech up, does not matter how u spin it, that's bull shit

dude he was arguing that the ostwind should have similar performance to the t 70, when 1 cost more fuel, and it cost higher to tech up, does not matter how u spin it, that's bull shit

Yes I don't agree the Ostwind is too strong, ive made that plenty clear in this thread. But if you're gonna tell somebody off, good to have your numbers right. That's all im saying

Ive had mine get corrected plenty, not trying to trash your overall point. Honestly i thought this thread died a while ago. It should've since it's all based on that silly video in the OP. Id be pushing back against Makies points too if I hadn't already argued with Kirrick for like 8 pages

To test the performance of a AI mediums by throwing at them infantry is a questionable experiment and a very bad thinking if you are actually ingame.
You forgot to show the experiment procedure, data and conclusions, because no one is going to believe the "Ostwind performs better than Centaur" as an hypothesis, out of just the same void you did the experiment.

Could you please test also what happens when ATguns face a stationary puma/T70? I wonder what will happen.

U never test or present data but flame others.How can u test the AI ability of an AI meduim except throwing infs at them? If in game u will never have ur infs against an AI meduims?"Ostwind performs better than Centaur" is not a hypothesis but a fact.

Ostwind and Centaur are different according to the data and performance. Ostwind have greater AOE(3 against 1) and DPH(40 against 14), making it more effective when counter multiple models target, meanwhile it got a hull machine gun to elimate those models at low health.
The test is simple, and everyone could do it so I didn't describe it in detail.
2 4-man RE Zook teams (sticked together, u can use tank trap to stick them together then delete the tank trap or moving the squads out from a same cover.) in no cover against a still Ostwind/Centaur at near max range of zooks (slightly above 30).
4 out of 10 times Ostwind win.
0 out of 10 times Centaur win.
Also test that Ostwind elimate 6-man Cons at around 16s while Centaurs elimate 4-man Grens at around 18s. (but in fact UKF did not have 6-man squad while OST could have, and as stated above, Centaur is not as good as Ostwind when counter more squads)

Conclusion: Ostwind is almost even against Centaur when dealing with 4 models but better when dealing with more. And Don forget that UKF could not non-doc Art Units, just like Scott for USF, they shoulder some AI ability that rocket artillery do in the other 3 factions. So even Ostwind performs just as a centaur copy may still be somewhat problematic.

My idea: In my opinion, slightly nerfing its AI ability cut it price a little is resonable, either keep its damage but lower the range to 37(zooks' range is 36.75 if equipped with intel) or nerfing its far cooldown to 0.5（also set its range mid to 35) may be enough. Chaging its maingun that AOE can now only hit three models max is also an option if possible. Considering its AI ability it after nerfing and adjust it's price to 280mp and 90f or so.

no, by ur logic usf has 5 tiers

and soviet literally has tier 1 and 2 at the same timing and 5 fu difference in price, would u like to compare it to osther whom has to pay 40 fu even before getting tier 2 online ?

USF only have 4 also, recent change making them could only have half of their T2/T3 unlocked.

And I never said Ostwind is or should be the same as T-70, right? U said they are the same against AT infs but I argued they are different.

U never test or present data but flame others.How can u test the AI ability of an AI meduim except throwing infs at them? If in game u will never have ur infs against an AI meduims?"Ostwind performs better than Centaur" is not a hypothesis but a fact.

Ostwind and Centaur are different according to the data and performance. Ostwind have greater AOE(3 against 1) and DPH(40 against 14), making it more effective when counter multiple models target, meanwhile it got a hull machine gun to elimate those models at low health.
The test is simple, and everyone could do it so I didn't describe it in detail.
2 4-man RE Zook teams (sticked together, u can use tank trap to stick them together then delete the tank trap or moving the squads out from a same cover.) in no cover against a still Ostwind/Centaur at near max range of zooks (slightly above 30).
4 out of 10 times Ostwind win.
0 out of 10 times Centaur win.
Also test that Ostwind elimate 6-man Cons at around 16s while Centaurs elimate 4-man Grens at around 18s. (but in fact UKF did not have 6-man squad while OST could have, and as stated above, Centaur is not as good as Ostwind when counter more squads)

Conclusion: Ostwind is almost even against Centaur when dealing with 4 models but better when dealing with more. And Don forget that UKF could not non-doc Art Units, just like Scott for USF, they shoulder some AI ability that rocket artillery do in the other 3 factions. So even Ostwind performs just as a centaur copy may still be somewhat problematic.

My idea: In my opinion, slightly nerfing its AI ability cut it price a little is resonable, either keep its damage but lower the range to 37(zooks' range is 36.75 if equipped with intel) or nerfing its far cooldown to 0.5（also set its range mid to 35) may be enough. Chaging its maingun that AOE can now only hit three models max is also an option if possible. Considering its AI ability it after nerfing and adjust it's price to 280mp and 90f or so.

I will politely disagree. It is supposed to be an infantry killing machine. Other factions have lots of infantry killing vehicles. I understand it could be a shock to see a unit that must be countered using combined arms. You just need AT gun or a medium tank or a tank destroyer to reliably deal with it. Add a few bazookas and a snare and it will go down in seconds. The only problem may be if you prepared your army composition to deal with infantry only, investing in infantry lmg squads forgetting about your at department this unity is supposed to punish you for that and push off the map. Remeber that this unit carries some risk with it for the ostheer player - it's really vulnerable to tank destroyer and medium tanks (I somehow think centaur has more armour).

Centaur should perform (mobility/DPS/Tankiness/Tech cost) as well as the Ostwind when OST has 5 men Grens by default like UKF.

I will politely disagree. It is supposed to be an infantry killing machine. Other factions have lots of infantry killing vehicles. I understand it could be a shock to see a unit that must be countered using combined arms. You just need AT gun or a medium tank or a tank destroyer to reliably deal with it. Add a few bazookas and a snare and it will go down in seconds. The only problem may be if you prepared your army composition to deal with infantry only, investing in infantry lmg squads forgetting about your at department this unity is supposed to punish you for that and push off the map. Remeber that this unit carries some risk with it for the ostheer player - it's really vulnerable to tank destroyer and medium tanks (I somehow think centaur has more armour).

It did not change its role as a inf killing machine by just nerfing its range or dps outside AT infs or dps against multiple squads, The situation is somewhat similar to the pre patched Brummber. A inf killing machine is ok, but a inf killing machine that could easily dealing with AT staff for its timing is not ok.
And Ostwind now is also somehow overlapping brummber.
Centaur actually has more armour but shercks have more pen,

It did not change its role as a inf killing machine by just nerfing its range or dps outside AT infs or dps against multiple squads, The situation is somewhat similar to the pre patched Brummber. A inf killing machine is ok, but a inf killing machine that could easily dealing with AT staff for its timing is not ok.
And Ostwind now is also somehow overlapping brummber.
Centaur actually has more armour but shercks have more pen,

Shrecks shoot less often and take more time to aim.

I played against ostwind and after price increase to me it is what it should be Just AT gun from US/UKF/Sov plus some at squad and it's generally enough. If You add and other tank ostwind will lose its power completely. Also remember that once damaged ost struggles with repairs more than other factions. But it's true that because of ostwind allies playing against ostheer will finally have to think of some AT options earlier. This, in my opinion, was a desired thing. Allied infantry would just walk all over ostheer infantry simply because they didn't have to prepare for taugh light vehicles (flame halftrack or 222 are very delicate so were relatively easy to fend off). Now ost finally has something that will require heavy investment in anti tank options earlier reducing the manpower you spend on boosting your infantry against ost infantry.

Shrecks shoot less often and take more time to aim.

I played against ostwind and after price increase to me it is what it should be Just AT gun from US/UKF/Sov plus some at squad and it's generally enough. If You add and other tank ostwind will lose its power completely. Also remember that once damaged ost struggles with repairs more than other factions. But it's true that because of ostwind allies playing against ostheer will finally have to think of some AT options earlier. This, in my opinion, was a desired thing. Allied infantry would just walk all over ostheer infantry simply because they didn't have to prepare for taugh light vehicles (flame halftrack or 222 are very delicate so were relatively easy to fend off). Now ost finally has something that will require heavy investment in anti tank options earlier reducing the manpower you spend on boosting your infantry against ost infantry.

Just posting here because I keep seeing this come up whenever shrecks get mentioned.

Panzershrecks have the same exact aim time as bazookas. The exact same. The absolute only downside in comparing the Panzershreck to the bazooka or PIAT is a 2.0 second longer reload time (7.75 to 5.75) and (in the case of the bazooka) marginally worse far range accuracy. The panzershreck is superior in every other regard, including short and mid range accuracy, and benefits from generally higher Axis accuracy veterancy bonuses to an extent that makes the initial .006 accuracy drop at max range compared to the bazooka meaningless.

Even the 2 second longer reload is mostly meaningless. A panzershreck, assuming it hits every time, will do more damage in a minute of continuous firing than a bazooka will*, and unlike the bazooka, is more likely to actually hit and penetrate every time.

*quick calculation 859.701492 vs 752.941177 (60/(reload+aimtime)*damage)