So when do Riflemen get an upgrade to six men?

So I was having a similar thought about a USF squad leader upgrade being implemented as a doctrinal ability in the rifle company commander.

There is no reason that it couldn’t be balanced if the following is done.

A. It is doctrinal only. Put it in Rifle Company because it currently a weak commander and needs a rework anyways.

B. Make it take up one weapon slot. No 6 man double BAR Riflemen. Just 6 man SINGLE BAR Riflemen.

C. Give the “Veteran Sergeant” a Paratrooper M1 Carbine. It wouldn’t be super strong but still a decent upgrade route instead of double BARs.

D. Find a way to put the Pathfinder radio backpack on a Rifleman model to make it easy to identify squads that have the and upgrade and also make it look super cool.

Can we get STG 44 and LMG partisans while we are here;( just want some more partisan units.

No

just buff garand dmg(8->10) will be enough

No

just buff garand dmg(8->10) will be enough

You are asking for a x125% damage buff that would make riflemen beat VG and Grenadier at all ranges.

You are asking for a x125% damage buff that would make riflemen beat VG and Grenadier at all ranges.

because they are 280/28 infantry

Fucking OP tommy can beat VG and grenadier at all range

why not rifles? they are same price

because they are 280/28 infantry

Fucking OP tommy can beat VG and grenadier at all range

why not rifles? they are same price

Because then the game would become pointless. I play USF I stay in cover and I win all engagements.

Tommies are designed to have weakness like out of cover DPS drop and some of the worst moving accuracy DPS. Comparing Tommies and riflemen is simply misleading.

Because then the game would become pointless. I play USF I stay in cover and I win all engagements.

Tommies are designed to have weakness like out of cover DPS drop and some of the worst moving accuracy DPS. Comparing Tommies and riflemen is simply misleading.

Tommies are designed to have weakness like out of cover DPS drop -> play UKF tommy spam and comeback here


so make rifleman more cheap (270/27)

they are not designed to long range fight

or make a right price/performance

rifles always lost by STG volks blobing and lmg grens blobing even they have BAR

Tommies are designed to have weakness like out of cover DPS drop -> play UKF tommy spam and comeback here


so make rifleman more cheap (270/27)

they are not designed to long range fight

or make a right price/performance

rifles always lost by STG volks blobing and lmg grens blobing even they have BAR

Not really, USF for a very long time completely dominated Ostheer, they actually had to move HMG-42 to T0 and buff pioneers to help Ostheer vs USF.

so make rifleman more cheap (270/27)

I wouldn’t mind that.

I think it would help incentivize Riflemen as you’re core unit instead of Rear Echelons, Pathfinders, Rangers or Paratroopers.

They’re supposed to be the core of your army, so I think a slight cost reduction to encourage that would be ok. No stat buffs though, they’re already in an ok place.


But back on topic;

Does anyone else have an idea on how to implement a USF 6 man Rifleman upgrade or does anyone have feedback on my Veteran Sergeant upgrade idea as an add on to rifle company?

I wouldn’t mind that.

I think it would help incentivize Riflemen as you’re core unit instead of Rear Echelons, Pathfinders, Rangers or Paratroopers.

They’re supposed to be the core of your army, so I think a slight cost reduction to encourage that would be ok. No stat buffs though, they’re already in an ok place.


But back on topic;

Does anyone else have an idea on how to implement a USF 6 man Rifleman upgrade or does anyone have feedback on my Veteran Sergeant upgrade idea as an add on to rifle company?

Since you seem to be blissfully unaware, USF could do nothing but spam rifles for 4 years, that changed only recently with their tech rework, allowing them to actually use any other infantry then rifles in higher quantity then one without hogging most of your pop cap.

There isn't anything wrong with rifles and they most certainly do not need to be incentivised more then they already are.

They are perfectly fine and strong squad.

Compared to Sections and Penals, Riflemen are the carry squad.

They're not as strong as Sections or Penals out of the gate, but they've got excellent veterancy and get double 60 munition weapon upgrades.

They're pricey, but that's offset by the USF teching system. If you get two Rifles and tech one tier, you've got three squads for an average of 253.3 MP each.

If you're having problems with rifles being effective, I can almost guarantee you're not retreating your squads properly in the early game. I will stan USF until the end of days but rifles are not the unit that needs reworking. Flank with them, keep them in cover and retreat at the right times.

Now the teching of the weapons rack could be a little different...

Since you seem to be blissfully unaware, USF could do nothing but spam rifles for 4 years, that changed only recently with their tech rework, allowing them to actually use any other infantry then rifles in higher quantity then one without hogging most of your pop cap.

There isn't anything wrong with rifles and they most certainly do not need to be incentivised more then they already are.

They are perfectly fine and strong squad.

I am completely aware of how things used to be.

There have been many things that contributed to the original problem none of which involved the price of Riflemen.

The original problem was primarily due to Riflemen being too good at everything with smoke, frags, BARs, AT riflegrenades, and Bazookas plus getting free veterancy with rifle company. Yeah. They were a bit much, and that’s an understatement. But they are now heavily sidelined by losing a lot of this utility while other units gained either power or utility in turn. A cost reduction from 280/28 to 270/27 is an incredibly minor change that won’t really do anything except make using Riflemen as your mainline troops less punishing on manpower, especially late game.

That’s the whole point of the bigger infantry squad upgrade on all mainline infantry squads. It’s not supposed to make them better than specialist or elite squads, just more economical.

Long story short, I think a veteran sergeant squad leader upgrade for Riflemen is viable and potentially balanced if done right. Riflemen are not OP or UP at the moment but could use an ever so slight reduction in cost to reflect their intended role as mainline troops and reflect their reduction in utility compared to what they used to be.

Rifles are arguably one of the most powerful mainline infantry squads in late game (it's them or infantry sections) - I don't think they need a buff. In fact, I'd argue they (and a few others) need late game nerfs to prevent vet3/double LMG squads from destroying everything at every range.

Regardless...

Does anyone else have an idea on how to implement a USF 6 man Rifleman upgrade or does anyone have feedback on my Veteran Sergeant upgrade idea as an add on to rifle company?

Basically what was suggested would be best. +1 model but it costs 60-100muni, and takes up a weapon slot. Even then, though, it would be a balancing nightmare since it's just furthering mainline infantry powercreep, but just with HP instead of DPS. Grens are already having trouble with 5-man, vet 3 rifles; how are they going to do against 6 man squads?

Basically what was suggested would be best. +1 model but it costs 60-100muni, and takes up a weapon slot. Even then, though, it would be a balancing nightmare since it's just furthering mainline infantry powercreep, but just with HP instead of DPS. Grens are already having trouble with 5-man, vet 3 rifles; how are they going to do against 6 man squads?

The overwhelming firepower of vet 3, double BAR Riflemen is mostly from the double BARs.

A 6 man squad upgrade that takes up one of the weapon slots would prevent adding a second BAR to the squad. That is right in line with how 7 man Conscripts and 5 man Grenadiers cannot get another upgrade. I think it’s a fair trade, that were it to be implemented, would be no more unbalanced than 7 man Conscripts or 5 man Grenadiers.

Most importantly, it must be locked to a doctrine. I’d say that it’s the perfect fit for a rework of USF Rifle Company.

because they are 280/28 infantry

Fucking OP tommy can beat VG and grenadier at all range

why not rifles? they are same price

rifle still win vs volks at long range as i show above

Tommies are designed to have weakness like out of cover DPS drop -> play UKF tommy spam and comeback here


so make rifleman more cheap (270/27)

they are not designed to long range fight

or make a right price/performance

rifles always lost by STG volks blobing and lmg grens blobing even they have BAR

spouting more bull shit i see, 2 stg = 1 bar how are they beating rifleman ? with pure bias ?

rifles always lost by STG volks blobing and lmg grens blobing even they have BAR

Rifles with double BARs are the strongest non-doc mid-range unit in the game, especially with vet. And these days you rarely see gren blobs; but 4-5+ rifles with double BARs are the norm.