So when do Riflemen get an upgrade to six men?

The only buff Riflemen could ever get is either a small price reduction (270/27) or some veterancy smoothing, getting RAs in small increments instead of 2 big bonuses at 2 and 3.

They don't need anything else.

rifle still win vs volks at long range as i show above

Every comparison I've done has been 50/50 at long range, with Rifles winning very strong up close though.

Considering the price difference, it makes sense to me that Rifles would have the edge over Volks.

Every comparison I've done has been 50/50 at long range, with Rifles winning very strong up close though.

Considering the price difference, it makes sense to me that Rifles would have the edge over Volks.

im not saying anything about that, rfle alredy beatd volks at long range , just don't buff rifle more

im not saying anything about that, rfle alredy beatd volks at long range , just don't buff rifle more

And I'm saying they don't just "beat" them, that it's 50/50 at long range.

I'll gladly run a dozen more comparisons if you like, but the 4 I did earlier (and posted about) showed that it was really 50/50 and it was a very CLOSE 50/50 for that matter. Saying "Rifles beat volks at long range" is misleading.

But I do agree that Riflemen are fine and do not need a buff.

And I'm saying they don't just "beat" them, that it's 50/50 at long range.

I'll gladly run a dozen more comparisons if you like, but the 4 I did earlier (and posted about) showed that it was really 50/50 and it was a very CLOSE 50/50 for that matter. Saying "Rifles beat volks at long range" is misleading.

But I do agree that Riflemen are fine and do not need a buff.

no look back at the dps stats and chart i showed

volks have 0.1 more dps at long range but rifle man have 0.3 reduced base received accuracy so with equal RNG rifle beat volks but being a bit unlucky will lead to the volks winning

no look back at the dps stats and chart i showed

volks have 0.1 more dps at long range but rifle man have 0.3 reduced base received accuracy so with equal RNG rifle beat volks but being a bit unlucky will lead to the volks winning

I'm fine thanks... I'll trust repeated comparisons in game more than what a stat chart says. For funsies, I'll do a comparison of 30+ pairs later today when I get home.

I'm fine thanks... I'll trust repeated comparisons in game more than what a stat chart says. For funsies, I'll do a comparison of 30+ pairs later today when I get home.

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that's not how it works, game is based on math and rolls so stats > gameplay experience cause even with 100 test u can't get an accurate reading as the rolls are too many

stats > gameplay experience

lol

Back on topic: how do people actually feel about a Veteran Sergeant upgrade for Riflemen?

How would you implement it? What weapon should the Sergeant have? What model should be used for him? Can we put a radio pack on him? How much should it cost? What sort of bonuses should he impart on the squad passively? What sort of abilities should he grant the squad?

My vote: 60 munition upgrade, doctrinally granted by Rifle Company. Takes up one weapon slot.
Grants the squad a Veteran Sergeant who is armed with a Paratrooper M1 Carbine and uses the standard Rifleman skin with a radio backpack on from the Pathfinder model, if possible. If not possible then use the Lieutenant model or the Ranger model. Grants a passive received accuracy reduction by 5% and a 10% bonus to how fast the squad gains veterancy. At vet 3 also gains passive healing when out of combat.

Pros: better survivability by adding the extra member and RA bonus. Faster vet also helps survivability and passive heal helps survivability further.

Cons: locked to a doctrine, takes up a weapon slot, so no double BARs or Bazookas. Costs the same as a BAR.

You can also reuse the voice like from the old Veteran Riflemen ability.

“Veteran know-how can now better train our Riflemen!”

lol

then tell me why do u want stats changes if game experience >stats ? just change game expirince not stats

just add cosmetic firework to enhance game experience

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that's not how it works, game is based on math and rolls so stats > gameplay experience cause even with 100 test u can't get an accurate reading as the rolls are too many

Unless the stats are wrong and/or the person doing the interpretation is missing something.

We're going around in circles at this point though, so I'll stop here.

no look back at the dps stats and chart i showed

volks have 0.1 more dps at long range but rifle man have 0.3 reduced base received accuracy so with equal RNG rifle beat volks but being a bit unlucky will lead to the volks winning

You are badly interpreting stats.

It's 0.03 RA. If you are gonna argue that values (multiplied by 5x for the whole squad) around the order of 0.07 dps (30 range) variance make one or the other squad "win" consistently... Heck even by your own parametre, Volks should be winning more since the RA will still give Volks more DPS than Rifles at max range.

Heck, i'll count the "overkill" dps loss (-5%) since Volks do 12dmg per shot and this is a vacuum scenario to the death with no other unit involved. If the value is at max range (35), the WHOLE SQUAD of rifles has an edge of 0.16 dps over the Volks squad.

If you could run 1 million rounds of this combat, having the Rifles win (grossly exaggerated) 52-55% of the time, wouldn't make far from basically been a 50/50 scenario.

You'll see a favourable engagement at range 15-20 and highly favourable below that. Anything going from 28-35 range is a flipcoin.


That been said: rifles don't need to be changed. What needs to be address is OKW first 3/5 mins of the game.
Remove 30/40mp from the initial bank. Make trucks cost 30/40 less. Split the difference in the total tech cost in the upgrades on both medics/engineers to keep total teching cost equal.
If it's too complicated just adjust using the trucks and make OKW get even when they get 2 trucks.

I appreciate your willingness to go into detail elchino.

I wish people could stop arguing and actually discuss cordially with one another about legitimate suggestions.

*sigh.....*

“War.... war never changes....”

I'd like to see some adjustments to rifles that smooths out their DPS spike via double arming. I'd take a price reduction in favour of locking 2 weapon slot behind vet 3 (maybe even a cost reduction to BARs at that point to 45-50?) so that they are less power spikey but cheaper and vet gated power. Officers and elites could maintain their double slots ensuring they remain unique and powerful despite rifles slowed performance.
End of the day it would mean a stronger rifleman but the strength would be earned instead of purchased outright.

that's why i said equal rng, we all know full well even pioneer can beat rifle close range if they get lucky and hit all shoots

that's why i said equal rng, we all know full well even pioneer can beat rifle close range if they get lucky and hit all shoots

There's no such thing as "equal" RNG. If i say that X wins against Y at certain range, you'll expect it to be in the orders of +70%. With the losing been a fluke.

The funny thing is that with any other squad, DPS loss and model sniping are issues when you compare it 1on1. They had PRACTICAL dead even DPS (at that range), model count and RA. The small difference won't skew the result enough to be notorious.

Back on topic: how do people actually feel about a Veteran Sergeant upgrade for Riflemen?

You are better opening up a new thread suggesting changes to Rifle Company than posting on a thread where OP is screaming Rifles UP.

Hi I'm a noob and I like to play all factions, but not USF (I did play like 50-100 matches as USF). I find them dull in playstyle and extremly difficult to counter when im playin any german faction. I think accuracy on the move gives them unfair advantage as they are good in shootouts and can cross the distance without significant drop in DPS.

Moreover 2xBAR upgrade promotes them from all rounders to titans of fckin war. Its NOT a vaccum with squad vs squad. Aside from the first engage there are 3x rifleman with a BAR each. destroys any other 3x core infantry while retaining AT potential. "Loose" blob can easily advance through MG/Lightvehicles/frontline. And use fuckton of grenades, at grenades and some captain or other bullshiet drops a smoke/mortar/nade. Is immune to sniper fire (and due to good acc on the move can smash sniper or force on advance focusin him for a second or two). Moreover you dont worry about early AT/snare coz they got the fckin nades for free on 1st vet which is quick enough to stop even die hard 222/Luchs/Sdkfz/AA rusher.

Sure Obersoldaten on vet 5 with upgrade can beat them. But you can supply with MP how many turboObers? 2 squads with preservance of a coh god. Meanwhile Some dude rocks 3x riflemans with captain and another riflemen/liet or sthing. Welcome to the rush zone. I sometimes think of USF as a zerg faction. Too numerous to dispose of. With 3 vet they're harder to kill than cockroaches.

TLDR Riflemen are top dogs of the battlefield synergising with every strategy and allow you not to worry about specialized AT snare. They should absolutly NOT get the 6th man. From my viewpoint.

Grens cry in a corner without doctrines.